| 00:04:29 | EXetoC | my eyes don't like #fff on dark backgrounds though |
| 00:04:35 | EXetoC | I don't care for #fff in any case |
| 00:07:17 | flaviu | EXetoC: Feedback is very welcome, what would work better for you? |
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| 00:11:24 | flaviu | BTW, it's #ddd, not #fff |
| 00:11:43 | EXetoC | #e9e9e9? noticed that now |
| 00:12:28 | flaviu | huh, I told it to use #ddd |
| 00:12:50 | flaviu | ah, links are #e9e9e9 |
| 00:12:57 | EXetoC | right |
| 00:17:30 | EXetoC | I'm using solarized now. the background is slightly lighter and the foreground is slightly darker so it doesn't cause any discomfort |
| 00:19:33 | dom96_ | That's not good. |
| 00:20:08 | EXetoC | ? |
| 00:20:59 | dom96_ | That the new forum crashed. |
| 00:21:19 | dom96_ | Looks like a very bad crash: https://gist.github.com/dom96/d7ff9b42d208a473fa74 |
| 00:21:22 | dom96_ | anyway, I restarted it. |
| 00:21:50 | flaviu | EXetoC: That is a bit better |
| 00:21:59 | flaviu | I did what you said, 5% |
| 00:22:27 | flaviu | dom96: Do you have a png version of the background image? |
| 00:22:43 | flaviu | Or a vector version of both the icon and background? |
| 00:24:40 | onionhammer | flaviu that 24.126.215.38 link looks good, i like how all the content is laid out and the structure of the page |
| 00:24:45 | onionhammer | but I stll think the theme is too dark |
| 00:27:17 | flaviu | onionhammer: Ok, I tried another 5%. Don't worry about sounding too critical, I don't mind at all. |
| 00:31:30 | flaviu | hmm, the background is still quite dark on the actual posts. I'll have to wait until I get the source svgs for that to fix it. :/ |
| 00:31:51 | EXetoC | I guess I have a problem with alternating colors when the background is so dark |
| 00:32:03 | onionhammer | i think a solid background would look better too |
| 00:32:22 | onionhammer | or maybe a subtle checkered pattern in 1 corner |
| 00:32:23 | EXetoC | do you do live color edits? it's pretty convenient |
| 00:33:25 | flaviu | EXetoC: Not quite live -- I need to restart the server. But live enough, it uses some CSS dialect that has variables |
| 00:33:42 | flaviu | So I just need to change the colors in the web UI |
| 00:34:00 | EXetoC | my eyes are pretty tired though. will have to get back to this at another time |
| 00:34:03 | EXetoC | scss? |
| 00:34:16 | flaviu | I don't really know, sorry |
| 00:34:53 | EXetoC | onionhammer: are the alternating rows distracting for you? |
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| 00:49:10 | flaviu | onionhammer: I made it so the background doesn't scroll with the view, so that should make things much better already. I'm not sure what you mean by a subtle checkered pattern, do you have any examples? |
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| 00:53:51 | EXetoC | I don't like the reddish color that appears, but no discomfort at least |
| 00:54:56 | flaviu | EXetoC: Make an account, and I can let you play with the colors |
| 00:58:07 | flaviu | I don't mind doing it myself, but it might be faster if you look at all the colors there are. |
| 00:59:38 | EXetoC | tomorrow maybe |
| 01:07:39 | onionhammer | flaviu i dont mind the alternating rowcolor |
| 01:08:16 | EXetoC | well I don't mind it now |
| 01:08:38 | flaviu | Ok, great. Because I really like the alternating row color |
| 01:10:04 | EXetoC | I think it will look good once the other colors have been adjusted too |
| 01:10:33 | flaviu | Right now I have a bug to report: http://24.126.215.38/t/yet-another-public-topic/17 |
| 01:10:54 | fowl | need contrast |
| 01:11:33 | onionhammer | flaviu topic-body is hard to read too |
| 01:11:39 | onionhammer | white on light text |
| 01:11:42 | fowl | ^ |
| 01:11:44 | onionhammer | i'd just darken the text |
| 01:11:53 | onionhammer | i like the contrast w/ the white background though |
| 01:12:12 | fowl | wrote this l-system thing https://gist.github.com/fowlmouth/394ad9bd43aae81d4bc5 |
| 01:12:18 | flaviu | I want to keep it similar in appearance to the rest of the nim website |
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| 01:12:44 | flaviu | onionhammer: topic-body? |
| 01:12:46 | fowl | parses a string like "A->AB,B->A" into a closure |
| 01:13:14 | fowl | flaviu, the post |
| 01:13:17 | onionhammer | flaviu the topic-body element http://24.126.215.38/t/yet-another-public-topic/17 |
| 01:13:26 | fowl | cannot read that |
| 01:13:31 | onionhammer | $(".topic-body") |
| 01:13:42 | flaviu | Oh, yes, I know about that. That's the bug that needs reporting |
| 01:13:51 | flaviu | https://github.com/discourse/discourse/commit/199896a607c15223e3dbfea546639772d7333a06#diff-217d6a1274541dcb31325d9fe17e7358R120 |
| 01:14:03 | flaviu | That should adjust the transparency, not the lightness |
| 01:14:31 | onionhammer | ok |
| 01:14:41 | flaviu | If you go to another page, it works fine: http://24.126.215.38/t/faq-guidelines/5 |
| 01:15:21 | onionhammer | i like the white background honestly |
| 01:15:28 | onionhammer | rather than transparent |
| 01:17:44 | flaviu | onionhammer: I don't want to do that because I want it to match the rest of the web site. |
| 01:17:44 | flaviu | There are lots of feature requests for Discourse to allow per-user themes, but they said no |
| 01:17:44 | flaviu | When I iron out the CSS, I can give you a light version that you can use with Stylish to make the site white |
| 01:23:10 | EXetoC | is there a preview of the rest? looking at the official site now, and it does indeed have a little 90s touch to it :p but the background for the content area is nice |
| 01:23:37 | flaviu | EXetoC: I'm not sure what you mean. |
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| 01:26:53 | EXetoC | nevermind. I don't what it is that it should match |
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| 01:34:02 | Varriount|Mobile | flaviu: I'd rather have the forum written in nimrod... |
| 01:34:34 | flaviu | Varriount: dom96 had a good point there, the forum should show that Nim is ready for production use. |
| 01:35:34 | flaviu | I believe it's more important for the forum to be the best possible, but I wouldn't be against the use of nim-forum for the reason dom96 pointed out |
| 01:35:36 | EXetoC | but then someone has to work on it |
| 01:35:57 | EXetoC | I'd assume that it matters for the sake of adoption |
| 01:36:21 | flaviu | Yes, time could be better focused on other things. Also CSS is terribly finicky, it's all much easier when someone else deals with that mess |
| 01:37:18 | EXetoC | that's why you go for ready solutions in some cases |
| 01:37:48 | flaviu | Even bootstrap is a non-insignificant amount of work. |
| 01:39:23 | EXetoC | I stopped using it because of all those color definitions |
| 01:46:51 | Varriount|Mobile | flaviu: But what about the new forum look filwit is working on? |
| 01:47:52 | flaviu | Varriount|Mobile: You'll notice I took the background and logo from there |
| 01:48:30 | flaviu | The colors are inspired by it too |
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| 01:52:44 | Varriount|Mobile | flaviu: Yes, but I don't see what, besides that, should prompt a move from Nimforum |
| 01:53:11 | flaviu | Varriount|Mobile: Make an account, play around with it |
| 01:53:34 | EXetoC | because of what I said |
| 01:53:37 | flaviu | I suppose I'm a bit biased, but it's pretty great. |
| 01:53:42 | EXetoC | progress |
| 01:53:58 | Varriount|Mobile | flaviu: Also, I commented on your nim-buildbot PR |
| 01:54:42 | EXetoC | flaviu: but maybe if you want to work on features for the existing forum, in case the others insist |
| 01:55:08 | flaviu | Varriount|Mobile: Oh, forgot to mention it's mostly not my code; I don't want to take credit for someone else's work. I'll fix all that anyway though |
| 01:55:17 | Varriount|Mobile | My only gripe with the current forum is not being able to change passwords/emails, and the inconvenient url syntax |
| 01:55:26 | flaviu | All I did was download prettier icons |
| 01:55:40 | dom96_ | Varriount|Mobile: What's inconvenient about the URL syntax? |
| 01:56:14 | EXetoC | Varriount|Mobile: and then there's encryption, but it's not so obvious |
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| 01:57:05 | Varriount|Mobile | dom96: I can never remember it. I like reddit's url syntax '[link text](url)' |
| 01:57:26 | flaviu | Discourse supports both markdown and BBCode |
| 01:57:43 | dom96_ | Varriount|Mobile: oh, I thought you meant http://forum.nim-lang.org/t/threadID. |
| 01:57:48 | Varriount|Mobile | In fact, I don't remember it at the moment either, just the fact that I dislike it. |
| 01:58:05 | dom96_ | I agree with you on that. |
| 01:58:33 | dom96_ | If somebody could write a markdown parser then I will put it in the forum. |
| 01:58:58 | Varriount|Mobile | One moment, switching to laptop |
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| 01:59:27 | flaviu | But guize, Discourse has pretty emoticons http://24.126.215.38/t/test-different-emojis/19 :D |
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| 02:06:26 | Varriount|Mobile | Ok, back. |
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| 02:13:53 | Varriount|Mobile | fowl: What does you lsystem thing do? |
| 02:14:52 | flaviu | Varriount|Mobile: It's a sort of cellular automata, IIRC |
| 02:15:23 | flaviu | Nope, I was wrong. But it's used in procedural generation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-system#mediaviewer/File:Dragon_trees.jpg |
| 02:16:57 | Varriount|Mobile | Ah, ok. |
| 02:17:57 | flaviu | You can reference StackExchange and Github from Discourse! http://24.126.215.38/t/test-lots-of-cool-features/19 |
| 02:19:35 | Varriount|Mobile | flaviu: But... it's not in nimrod... :< |
| 02:19:56 | EXetoC | everything in nimrod! |
| 02:20:08 | flaviu | ruby, nimrod, apples, oranges |
| 02:20:13 | flaviu | What's the difference? |
| 02:20:15 | flaviu | :P |
| 02:20:52 | Varriount|Mobile | flaviu: Logically, yes, discourse is much better than the current forum software. But... it's not written in Nimrod |
| 02:21:43 | Varriount|Mobile | And before you say anything about the buildbot not being written in Nimrod, the buildbot is much less visible, and I have... plans. |
| 02:22:41 | EXetoC | flaviu: just the syntax really |
| 02:22:54 | dom96_ | You know what's written in Nim? Nimbuild |
| 02:23:12 | Varriount|Mobile | EXetoC: Don't forget the whole VM vs Static Compilation |
| 02:23:24 | Varriount|Mobile | dom96_: As I said, I have *plans* |
| 02:23:47 | dom96_ | what are these plans? |
| 02:24:15 | Varriount|Mobile | dom96_: Well, there are a great many things that nimbuild does that buildbot can't do (out of the box) |
| 02:24:33 | Varriount|Mobile | dom96_: And since python has a C interface, and nimrod has a C backend... |
| 02:25:29 | Varriount|Mobile | Well, lets just say, "Built with Nimrod and Python" is much better than just "Built with Python" |
| 02:25:47 | EXetoC | Varriount|Mobile: I forgot |
| 02:25:49 | EXetoC | :p |
| 02:26:49 | flaviu | http://i.imgur.com/iauHIwp.png |
| 02:27:23 | Varriount|Mobile | flaviu: Stop trying to tempt me over the dark side. |
| 02:27:28 | flaviu | So... that button should be pretty great for encouraging participation |
| 02:28:16 | flaviu | Search is amazing too! http://i.imgur.com/l1He0l5.png |
| 02:28:28 | Varriount|Mobile | flaviu: What about performance? I haven't heard very good things about the Ruby VM and memory usage. |
| 02:29:10 | dom96_ | Nothing is more encouraging than using a programming language which nobody apart from the compiler devs use for production quality software. |
| 02:29:12 | flaviu | Performance is meh, it uses about 275MB per worker |
| 02:29:25 | Varriount|Mobile | O_o |
| 02:29:50 | dom96_ | I know that it's more work to get stuff in Nim working but it pays off big time for everyone. |
| 02:30:27 | flaviu | Sorry, but it's just too much fun to use something as polished as Discourse. |
| 02:30:43 | dom96_ | If I did what you're doing now then there would be no nimble, aporia or jester. |
| 02:32:29 | flaviu | nimble, aporia, and jester are reasonable. There isn't an off the shelf package manager kit, IDE kit, or web server in a specific language. |
| 02:33:00 | flaviu | But very user-facing things should be polished and as close to perfect as possible. |
| 02:34:25 | Varriount|Mobile | flaviu: This is one decision I'm going to stay out of. For all intents and purposes, I think it's dom96_ and Araq that you need to convince. |
| 02:35:14 | flaviu | I can migrate the old forum over, dom96 and Araq |
| 02:35:34 | EXetoC | you don't want to patch up the original project? |
| 02:35:46 | EXetoC | well, you kind of hinted at that |
| 02:36:06 | Varriount|Mobile | EXetoC: Was that aimed at me? |
| 02:36:13 | flaviu | EXetoC: patch up nim-forum? |
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| 02:37:20 | dom96_ | lol, discourse totally stole nimforum's URLs |
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| 02:39:12 | flaviu | It should be possible to get by with just one worker |
| 02:39:28 | flaviu | looks like nginx is doing lots of caching |
| 02:40:30 | EXetoC | flaviu: the current forum |
| 02:41:02 | flaviu | Oh, I was thinking of fixing some CSS. I decided it'd be easier to just mess with Discourse |
| 02:43:02 | dom96_ | Seriously though guys, who's going to take us seriously if we don't write anything in the language we are trying to promote. |
| 02:44:15 | EXetoC | the other projects are not enough? |
| 02:44:30 | EXetoC | for now that is. obviously the majority of the projects will be by users eventually |
| 02:44:53 | dom96_ | what other projects? |
| 02:44:56 | Varriount|Mobile | dom96_: I agree. |
| 02:45:02 | flaviu | "We prefer to focus our energy on the core of the project: a bug-free compiler and useful libraries. See http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000007.html" |
| 02:45:27 | Varriount|Mobile | EXetoC: I think dom96_ means 'publically visible and running' projects. |
| 02:46:59 | EXetoC | I'll just hope it gets some more love soon then |
| 02:47:15 | EXetoC | I'll stop repeating myself now |
| 02:48:25 | dom96_ | EXetoC: what do you hope gets some more love soon? |
| 02:50:43 | Varriount|Mobile | dom96_: The nim forum software |
| 02:51:27 | flaviu | dom96_: Make an account and mess with discourse a bit. Join the dark side! |
| 02:52:30 | dom96_ | I'm familiar with Discourse. |
| 02:53:02 | dom96_ | I'd rather give the nim forum some love. |
| 02:53:36 | Varriount|Mobile | Hm. Was discourse affected by the the shellshock bug? |
| 02:54:32 | Varriount|Mobile | Oh. Look. It was - https://meta.discourse.org/t/bash-shellshock-is-now-patched-in-our-base-image/20491 |
| 02:54:55 | Varriount|Mobile | dom96_: Does nimforum suffer from the shellshock bug? |
| 02:55:04 | flaviu | Varriount: No, it doesn't use CGI |
| 02:55:36 | flaviu | Although I don't see shellshock as being a negative for Discourse, many websites were effected |
| 02:55:44 | dom96_ | Varriount|Mobile: nope. |
| 02:55:58 | Varriount|Mobile | flaviu: Rather, it's a positive for nimforum. |
| 02:56:17 | flaviu | I'm confident I can find security holes. |
| 02:56:44 | Varriount|Mobile | flaviu: Please do. And while your at it, spice up nimforum. ;) |
| 02:56:51 | flaviu | Passwords still aren't properly hashed. |
| 02:56:51 | Varriount|Mobile | *you're |
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| 02:58:42 | Varriount|Mobile | Anyway, I'm off - I have to study for an exam on monday. |
| 02:59:00 | flaviu | ohh, the password problems are worse than I thought! |
| 02:59:11 | flaviu | md5 O_o |
| 02:59:12 | Varriount|Mobile | flaviu: I'll merge your PR later tonight, and hopefully update the master's version tomorrow. |
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| 03:01:05 | dom96_ | flaviu: Passwords will be properly hashed. Complaining about it further does not help anybody. |
| 03:01:34 | dom96_ | The passwords are salted though so I am still sceptical that it's really /that/ easy to brute force crack them. |
| 03:02:12 | flaviu | dom96_: I could be logged in as you for no more than $5 |
| 03:02:24 | EXetoC | can you try it? |
| 03:02:41 | EXetoC | whatever. someone's gotta fix it |
| 03:02:45 | flaviu | Sure, I guess I can try. I'll probably fail |
| 03:03:38 | dom96_ | How can you try? You don't have access to the database? |
| 03:03:45 | flaviu | dom96_: Timing attack |
| 03:04:09 | flaviu | dom96_: just so I don't waste my time, do you use a password manager? |
| 03:04:18 | dom96_ | no. |
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| 03:09:06 | dom96_ | flaviu: I'd love for you to try it. I bet my salting makes things pretty difficult. |
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| 03:11:12 | EXetoC | does it matter for such attacks? |
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| 03:15:30 | flaviu | Well, I won't have the salt, so it'll be harder |
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| 03:20:26 | flaviu | dom96_: You're right, just a timing attack is insufficient. Your salts are too long |
| 03:35:07 | flaviu | https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/blob/devel/lib/pure/sockets.nim#L400-L427 almost makes me cry |
| 03:37:55 | EXetoC | wai |
| 03:38:33 | EXetoC | not enough unrepetitionifying? |
| 03:39:36 | EXetoC | or the lack of indents? |
| 03:39:54 | flaviu | Well, the first thing that came to mind when seeing that was code golf |
| 03:40:05 | EXetoC | :p |
| 03:40:07 | EXetoC | or empty lines |
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| 03:47:58 | EXetoC | too bad we can't cram it into one line using semicolons |
| 03:48:18 | flaviu | EXetoC: You can |
| 03:48:36 | flaviu | There's a way to write nim with semicolons |
| 03:48:46 | flaviu | See if you can figure it out :) |
| 03:49:00 | flaviu | It's not in the docs, nor is it particularly hidden |
| 03:50:05 | EXetoC | oh right |
| 03:50:18 | EXetoC | less code-colfy though, right |
| 03:55:08 | flaviu | Well, it costs you two characters, but it saves you at least 2 characters per line |
| 03:56:05 | EXetoC | let's have bf syntax too in cases where it matters |
| 03:57:10 | flaviu | EXetoC: All nimrod code is correct brainfuck |
| 03:57:25 | flaviu | It just so happens that most of it gets stuck in loops |
| 04:03:19 | EXetoC | right |
| 04:03:34 | EXetoC | http://www.pcengines.ch/alix2d3.htm nice and simple website |
| 04:03:46 | EXetoC | I would like to use one of those as a router |
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| 04:05:59 | EXetoC | you can buy dedicated routers for less, but this is good in some ways |
| 04:06:14 | Varriount|Mobile | I found a mention of Nim! http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2mea0l/circumventing_the_d_garbage_collector/ |
| 04:06:36 | EXetoC | speaking of which, how often do you have to restart your routers? I've had two, and both have needed frequent restarts |
| 04:06:40 | Varriount|Mobile | Seems like having a soft-realtime GC is a somewhat unique attribute. |
| 04:06:55 | flaviu | EXetoC: use openwrt |
| 04:07:09 | flaviu | I haven't had to restart it once. |
| 04:07:30 | EXetoC | there's no support for my current router I think |
| 04:08:02 | dom96_ | flaviu: hah. So you can't do it? :P |
| 04:08:14 | flaviu | dom96_: Sure I can. It'll just take more work |
| 04:08:23 | EXetoC | <10 years? |
| 04:08:47 | flaviu | Yes. |
| 04:09:13 | flaviu | ugh, I can't get nimforum to compile, no matter what I do. |
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| 04:11:05 | EXetoC | so when do we make adaptions with the assumptions that quantum computers can do useful things soon? :> |
| 04:11:57 | Varriount|Mobile | flaviu: Just curious, what errors are you running into? |
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| 04:12:32 | Varriount|Mobile | EXetoC: When quantum hardware becomes available to the common person? |
| 04:12:39 | flaviu | Varriount|Mobile: Well, first an ICE |
| 04:12:53 | flaviu | Then gcc locks up while compiling HEAD~50 |
| 04:13:18 | Varriount|Mobile | Are you using the latest stable version of GCC? |
| 04:13:28 | EXetoC | only after the fact? |
| 04:13:29 | flaviu | Well, it turns into a zombie and nim never reaps it |
| 04:14:25 | flaviu | EXetoC: Well the idea was that even if I don't find a vulnerability, someone else will. It just takes one. |
| 04:14:50 | EXetoC | nm |
| 04:14:54 | EXetoC | wanna implement password reset? :> |
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| 04:14:59 | flaviu | Nope |
| 04:15:11 | flaviu | Discourse is better |
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| 04:16:48 | EXetoC | oh well |
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| 08:08:08 | Araq | flaviu: the quality of the stdlib and the compiler improve tremendously with realworld software like nimforum. |
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| 08:08:53 | Araq | it helps us with the core, so it's completely unreasonable to switch to feature-rich non-nim forum at this point |
| 08:09:26 | Araq | and about NimForum being insecure. prove it. attack it, login as Araq |
| 08:10:41 | Araq | otherwise shut up. the larger the system is, the larger is the attack vector. And Nimforum is really small. |
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| 08:17:44 | Araq | Trustable: the problem is that *= takes a 'var int' |
| 08:17:59 | Araq | this is translated into an array of size 1 |
| 08:18:11 | Araq | so that it can modfified inplace |
| 08:18:22 | Araq | but the codegen is not consequent about it, hence the bug |
| 08:19:00 | Trustable | ok |
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| 08:25:26 | Triplefox | haxe did exactly the same thing with its forum and wiki software...not amazing software but it is usable |
| 08:30:51 | kokozedman | hey guys |
| 08:31:07 | kokozedman | when I import logging ... it tries to import on the currenct directory |
| 08:31:25 | kokozedman | very weird, is the a gotcha around it? |
| 08:31:31 | kokozedman | is there* |
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| 08:33:59 | Araq | kokozedman: er no? don't have a logging module in the current directory? |
| 08:34:34 | kokozedman | no, I don't, I have a Log.nim that imports logging (adds some other procs) |
| 08:34:48 | kokozedman | I tried Logging.nim also, same error |
| 08:35:05 | kokozedman | and if I change to logging.nim, it will complain logging.nim(1, 7) Error: A module cannot import itself |
| 08:35:49 | Araq | well log.nim means you get a 'log' module identifier in the code |
| 08:36:02 | Araq | and then you import logging which exports 'log' |
| 08:36:10 | gour | morning |
| 08:36:13 | Araq | maybe that confuses the compiler |
| 08:36:28 | kokozedman | modules are case insensitive? |
| 08:36:54 | Trustable | bbl |
| 08:36:56 | * | Trustable quit (Quit: Leaving) |
| 08:38:07 | * | gour is impressed seeing that nimble has 'uninstall' target - something which is, afaik, still not present in e.g. haskell's cabal |
| 08:38:22 | Araq | kokozedman: no idea what you mean |
| 08:38:25 | kokozedman | Araq: I have a main file that imports my own logging module... that in turn imports the actual logging... so: main <- MyLogging.nim (I tried this) <- logging.nim |
| 08:38:42 | kokozedman | I mean, is module Logging.nim same as logging.nim? |
| 08:38:58 | Araq | sure |
| 08:39:20 | Araq | everything else wouldn't work on windows anyway |
| 08:39:36 | kokozedman | alright, so, I changed my module to MyLogging.nim, nothing to do with log or logging ... still can't import the actual logging.nim |
| 08:39:49 | gour | is nimble designed in a way to easily add support for other dvcs-es? |
| 08:39:54 | kokozedman | still tries to import on the ./ directory |
| 08:40:22 | Araq | kokozedman: 'import logging' is the syntax, not 'import logging.nim' |
| 08:40:37 | kokozedman | sure, I know that |
| 08:40:46 | kokozedman | but it doesn't work |
| 08:41:35 | kokozedman | Araq: could there be something wrong with my flags? --cpu:mips --os:linux --threads:on -d:uClibc --parallelBuild:1 --nimcache:/home/elie/tmp/nimcache --verbosity:1 --deadCodeElim:on |
| 08:41:50 | kokozedman | yet, I've been working on these flags for a while now |
| 08:41:51 | kokozedman | no problem |
| 08:42:18 | kokozedman | (for a week to be exact) |
| 08:42:43 | Araq | gour: dunno, but we already support 2 |
| 08:42:59 | Araq | kokozedman: well what's the error message? |
| 08:43:00 | gour | Araq: i'm interested about fossil |
| 08:43:26 | kokozedman | Error: cannot open '/.../.../logging.nim' |
| 08:43:38 | kokozedman | and that referers to the current directory |
| 08:43:45 | kokozedman | current working directory* |
| 08:44:14 | gour | Araq: am i right that nim's (std)lib is as complete as the one in Ada, if not even more? (here i'm thinking about e.g. utf8 support built in nim) |
| 08:46:51 | Araq | kokozedman: logging is in lib/pure same as strutils and os. so either importing strutils fails too or you have some other problem |
| 08:47:50 | kokozedman | Araq: it seems that if I import logging in the main file, and then I import MyLogging (which import logging again), it will work |
| 08:48:40 | Araq | gour: afaict we have more modules and wrappers than Ada. |
| 08:50:08 | Araq | kokozedman: why does it say '/.../.../'? do you use some relative import? |
| 08:50:52 | kokozedman | Araq: no no, I suppressed the actual path... but like I said, it referers to the CWD |
| 08:51:04 | kokozedman | sorry for the confusion |
| 08:52:03 | kokozedman | that's weird... for some reason, it doesn't complain anymore |
| 08:52:31 | kokozedman | I added the import logging before import MyLogging ... then compilation passed... then I removed import logging, and now, things are ok |
| 08:57:37 | Araq | ah wait |
| 08:57:49 | Araq | you're the guy with ulibC patches, right? |
| 08:58:01 | kokozedman | yeah |
| 08:58:06 | kokozedman | but I'm using master now |
| 08:58:21 | Araq | so ... no patches necessary anymore? |
| 08:59:08 | kokozedman | yes, barely some patch ... just some osproc patch, where I removed execvpe because uClibc only has execve |
| 08:59:25 | Araq | ok, please make a PR then |
| 08:59:44 | kokozedman | PR about what? |
| 08:59:56 | Araq | your osproc patch |
| 09:00:04 | kokozedman | ah, ok |
| 09:13:49 | Araq | bbl |
| 09:29:37 | kokozedman | I'm actually on devel ... I was mistakenly thinking I was on master |
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| 09:46:23 | gour | Araq: yeah, i was investigating Nim's ecosystem yesterday and got feeling it's in a better shape than Ada's...quite impressive!! |
| 10:10:00 | kokozedman | Araq: PR sent |
| 10:10:06 | kokozedman | should be very trivial |
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| 11:04:38 | gokr1 | Hey folks |
| 11:10:55 | * | gokr1 forcing linux32 one more time. :) Will see if I can take a look at that t5000 test a bit closer. |
| 11:11:12 | * | gokr1 really should be changing tires on one of our cars but... hacking Nim is more fun |
| 11:14:07 | * | gour urges gokr1 to consider safety issue as well ;) |
| 11:14:27 | gokr1 | I will change tires... soon :) |
| 11:15:03 | gokr1 | Are you swedish? |
| 11:15:36 | gour | nope, from croatia |
| 11:16:22 | gokr1 | Just curious, you connect via a swedish IRC server I think. But not sure how that works. |
| 11:16:58 | gokr1 | Did you see my articles on Nim btw? They might be of interest and since they are fairly new I am not sure they are very well "linked" |
| 11:18:43 | * | AMorpork is now known as AFKMorpork |
| 11:21:51 | gour | well, this is what i've in my weechat setup: chat.freenode.net/7070, it probably goes random |
| 11:24:12 | gour | gokr1: i saw read (some) and commented on one article...i must say it re-ignited my interest in nim considering i see that Ada's roadmap is not going towards open-source |
| 11:24:21 | gokr1 | Ah, cool |
| 11:24:54 | gokr1 | I am an oddbird here I guess, being a long time Smalltalker (but polyglot). |
| 11:25:04 | gour | moreover, it looks that now Nim's ecosystem is not at all behind the one in Ada, it even looks more advanced |
| 11:26:17 | gokr1 | My sense of Nim after hacking a bit - is that there is a "simplicity" that I like. Well, the language itself is fairly big, but the code you read and write is often very simple. |
| 11:26:25 | gokr1 | The compiler is simple to use. Nimble is simple. |
| 11:26:26 | gour | programming is not my bread & butter these days although i graduated computer engineering long ago, so nim/ada/whatever would be used for kind of hobby project...and i played with digitalk (if you know about it) long ago when using os2 |
| 11:26:42 | gokr1 | Yeah, Digitalk, sure. |
| 11:26:52 | gokr1 | Also used it a looooong time ago :) |
| 11:27:01 | gour | didn't try nimble, but i'm impressed it even has 'uninstall' target |
| 11:27:04 | gokr1 | The Smalltalk with the most push these days is Pharo. |
| 11:27:31 | gour | i heard about it, but believe that smalltalk is not for me these days |
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| 11:27:48 | gokr1 | Its... comparing to Nim its a totally different beast :) |
| 11:28:28 | gokr1 | The IDE of Pharo is about 20x more advanced. But Nim has a range of other advantages. |
| 11:29:52 | gokr1 | So what are you going to "hack"? |
| 11:30:18 | gour | my 'niche' is more application's space, iow. 'general applications' if such things still exist along with today's web-app's hype, not so interested in low(er)-level system programming and nim really looks nice, especially after evaluating (too) many langs |
| 11:31:07 | gour | gokr1: something like 'research' version of http://saravali.de/maitreya.html |
| 11:31:47 | gour | gokr1: why are you going from smalltalk to nim? |
| 11:32:19 | gokr1 | Well, we work with a huge virtual reality collaboration system called Terf. Its written almost entirely in Smalltalk. |
| 11:32:37 | gour | what's wrong with it? |
| 11:33:14 | gokr1 | And that's fine, but we are now moving towards integrating and using a game engine instead of our own homegrown OpenGL engine, and also we are moving towards Android/iOS (not only OSX and Win32 as today). |
| 11:33:58 | gour | nim is going to be suitable for mobile platforms? |
| 11:34:06 | gokr1 | Sure |
| 11:34:12 | gokr1 | Nim compiles to C or C++. |
| 11:34:31 | gokr1 | The gaming engine we are looking at is C++, and its already portable over those 4 + Linux. |
| 11:35:49 | gokr1 | So for us this is a HUGE step, the codebase we have is BIG. But we feel its our path forward. We integrate a whole bunch of stuff from the C/C++ eco systems - so that factor is important. |
| 11:36:25 | gokr1 | Hmmm, this channel is logged so ... I don't want to go into too much detail :) |
| 11:39:28 | gour | :-) |
| 11:48:42 | gokr1 | My current little nim hack is "blimp": https://gitlab.3dicc.com/gokr/blimp |
| 11:48:55 | gokr1 | Sorry about the broken cert there, needs to fix it. |
| 11:50:07 | gokr1 | Its working quite well, just need to polish it a bit. Also only tested on Linux, well, the idea is for it to work on all 3 platforms - it probably works on all, but I haven't yet tested. |
| 11:50:27 | gokr1 | Ok, time for the garage, later |
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| 12:02:45 | t4nk600 | Hello, is it possible to modify the command line used by the C compiler? I would like to add some extra defines. Thanks! |
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| 12:33:29 | flaviu | Araq: I know, I'm trying to. I needed to sleep first. |
| 12:34:14 | flaviu | t4nk600: --passC:-stuff ? |
| 12:45:00 | t4nk600 | flaviu: thanks! |
| 12:45:30 | dom96_ | gour: Nimble is designed for the trivial addition of extra dvcs'. Take a look at https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/blob/master/src/nimblepkg/download.nim |
| 12:48:50 | flaviu | dom96_: Just being pedantic here, but there exist non-dvcs vcs's |
| 12:50:19 | dom96_ | flaviu: Yes, i'm aware of that. |
| 12:55:52 | gour | dom96_: looks good. will take a look and see how it could work for fossil |
| 13:05:31 | gour | ..although fossil does things a bit differently, e.g. there is nothing like ./fossil directory etc. |
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| 13:45:49 | t4nk600 | I am now using gcc to compile (on Linux). How can I choose Clang instead? thanks! |
| 13:50:49 | Araq | edit your config and set cc=clang |
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| 13:51:29 | Araq | btw this is the last question of http://nimrod-lang.org/question.html |
| 13:59:41 | t4nk600 | Araq: thanks! |
| 14:02:43 | t4nk600 | Araq: well actually, where is the config file is supposed to be? I am not able to find it in my home. Only the system one in "etc" |
| 14:02:57 | t4nk600 | etc -> /etc |
| 14:03:25 | Araq | I think you can copy the one from /etc to your home |
| 14:03:43 | Araq | something like ~/nimrod/nimrod.cfg |
| 14:04:00 | t4nk600 | Araq: thanks! |
| 14:04:30 | Araq | but I refuse to accept that it is our problem, that's just how unix works |
| 14:04:50 | Araq | (it doesn't) |
| 14:05:28 | t4nk600 | Araq: ? This is just about searching first in a local path. What is unix specific here? |
| 14:06:25 | Araq | the way of "installing" stuff by spreading it out over the whole dir hierarchy with questionable access rights |
| 14:07:30 | t4nk600 | Araq: OK. ~/nimrod/nimrod.cfg does not seem to work though. |
| 14:07:53 | Araq | try ~/nimrod.cfg then |
| 14:08:09 | Araq | or ~/.nimrod.cfg |
| 14:08:16 | Araq | or ~/.nimrod/nimrod.cfg |
| 14:08:36 | Araq | or ~/nim/nim.cfg (do you use nimrod or nim?) |
| 14:09:02 | Araq | or just make some local project.nimrod.cfg |
| 14:09:18 | t4nk600 | work in the current dir actually. Since this is work local tests, it is even better for me. Thanks for your help! |
| 14:09:37 | Araq | actually iirc it is ~/config/nimrod.cfg |
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| 14:44:33 | flaviu | Araq: Ok, got it. |
| 14:44:53 | flaviu | Araq: Look: http://178.62.143.63:5000/t/11 |
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| 14:46:59 | flaviu | dom96: You should too. |
| 14:48:57 | EXetoC | how's it going with the forum stuff? |
| 14:49:31 | EXetoC | what's the address again? |
| 14:49:46 | flaviu | EXetoC: I just posted it. |
| 14:50:10 | flaviu | http://178.62.143.63:5000/ |
| 14:50:15 | flaviu | Or do you mean Discourse? |
| 14:50:24 | flaviu | I haven't done anything since last night |
| 14:50:34 | flaviu | Discourse: http://24.126.215.38/ |
| 14:52:14 | EXetoC | both |
| 14:52:28 | EXetoC | ok |
| 14:53:29 | Araq | flaviu: we won't use discourse |
| 14:53:35 | flaviu | Araq: Ok. |
| 14:54:07 | flaviu | Araq: Can you look at the topic that I showed you? |
| 14:54:19 | Araq | link? |
| 14:54:24 | flaviu | http://178.62.143.63:5000/t/11 |
| 14:54:56 | Araq | what does that prove? |
| 14:55:47 | flaviu | Araq: Ah, you're not logged in. |
| 14:55:53 | flaviu | Be logged in and make an account |
| 14:56:05 | flaviu | err, be logged in and go to that link |
| 14:56:19 | flaviu | Look at what EXetoC posted: http://178.62.143.63:5000/t/12 |
| 14:57:15 | EXetoC | c(:)|< |
| 14:57:20 | Araq | well I'm logged in now and don't get it |
| 14:57:26 | EXetoC | I didn't btw. I got haxored |
| 14:58:00 | flaviu | Araq: Logged in on the new forum |
| 14:58:15 | Araq | yeah |
| 14:59:04 | flaviu | Araq: Do you have noscript enabled? |
| 14:59:32 | Araq | I don't think so, but I have an ad blocker (who doesn't?) |
| 14:59:52 | flaviu | So do I, but it works for me. |
| 14:59:55 | EXetoC | people who say "BUT OMG, PAYWALL" |
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| 15:01:40 | Araq | well sooooo ... flaviu pretended to be EXetoC ? |
| 15:01:48 | flaviu | Araq: No, I see the problem. |
| 15:02:02 | EXetoC | I assume he did |
| 15:02:17 | flaviu | I could have very easily. |
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| 15:06:07 | Araq | flaviu: prove it! :P |
| 15:06:19 | flaviu | Araq: Give me a few moment |
| 15:06:25 | Araq | I really enjoy you trying to break our software, don't get me wrong |
| 15:06:36 | Araq | I'm also sure you'll succeed |
| 15:06:48 | Araq | but we should improve what we have, not abandon it |
| 15:06:56 | Araq | bbl |
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| 15:09:22 | dom96_ | flaviu: are you trying to inject HTML? |
| 15:09:44 | dom96_ | Doesn't quite relate to the password hashing algorithm does it? |
| 15:09:51 | flaviu | dom96_: Sure it does. |
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| 15:12:24 | dom96_ | How? |
| 15:12:34 | dom96_ | Also, are you just spamming the forum? |
| 15:12:42 | flaviu | Sorry about the spam |
| 15:12:55 | flaviu | Every time I reload the page, it submits a new topic |
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| 15:16:20 | gour | since you like web forums, let me say that in such scenario i like forum <---> mailing list gateway so that the list can be subscribed to gmane and be read/posted to via nntp |
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| 15:18:45 | flaviu | dom96: Ok, click that link again |
| 15:19:40 | flaviu | http://178.62.143.63:5000/t/12 |
| 15:25:46 | dom96_ | what are you trying to do? |
| 15:27:06 | flaviu | dom96: Just be logged in and click the link, and I'll give you your password hash |
| 15:27:31 | flaviu | Which allows me to impersonate you. |
| 15:27:36 | dom96_ | I already did. |
| 15:28:38 | flaviu | Oops, wrong link. |
| 15:28:39 | flaviu | http://178.62.143.63:5000/t/11 |
| 15:29:49 | dom96_ | done |
| 15:30:16 | flaviu | Looks like it crashed, but the crash isn't my fault |
| 15:30:25 | flaviu | Or at least not my goal. |
| 15:32:25 | gokr1 | He, Linux32 came through this time. So its obviously non deterministic. |
| 15:33:45 | gokr1 | gour: I am with you. |
| 15:33:51 | gokr1 | Can't be hard to bridge. |
| 15:34:56 | dom96_ | flaviu: restarted |
| 15:35:39 | dom96_ | flaviu: well done |
| 15:35:53 | gour | gokr1: well, it might be old-school, but, for me, it's still the most effective communication channel |
| 15:35:57 | flaviu | 16b32d7ed45f9bed2b0873e7918427ba |
| 15:36:07 | gokr1 | gour: I am all with you. |
| 15:36:31 | dom96_ | flaviu: can you figure out what that password is? |
| 15:37:19 | flaviu | perhaps, did the server crash again? |
| 15:37:28 | flaviu | nope, it's just being slow |
| 15:39:11 | gokr1 | So given that I don't want dom96 to have to abandon his work - and there are several good points in dog fooding too - then I suggest integrating the forum with an ml somehow. I am not sure I can commit work on it, but I can look into it at least. |
| 15:40:28 | flaviu | gokr1: We're not switching to discourse anyway, since Araq doesn't want it. |
| 15:41:51 | gokr1 | I read that, and I just wanted to support that viewpoint. I agree with you, groupserver and discourse look very impressive. But we should preserve the work being put into the forum. Now, if it gets abandoned, that's another story. |
| 15:42:04 | dom96_ | flaviu: How did you trick rstgen to allow you to embed html then? |
| 15:42:17 | flaviu | image tags |
| 15:42:34 | flaviu | .. image:: "/><script>...</script> |
| 15:43:27 | gokr1 | The hours I can spend I will probably put into nimble though, seems like more payback. |
| 15:44:02 | * | gokr1 still heavily confused why so many like web forums... :) |
| 15:44:20 | * | gour *shrugs* |
| 15:44:53 | dom96_ | flaviu: Could you please write a markdown parser for the forum? |
| 15:45:00 | flaviu | dom96_: I then embedded the code in `.customscript1`, which I evaled. The reason I didn't put everything in the image directive was that using a space would break. |
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| 15:45:31 | flaviu | https://github.com/flaviut/stupid-markdown-parser/blob/master/markdown.nim |
| 15:45:33 | flaviu | :P |
| 15:45:48 | flaviu | 100% secure, 0 bugs, and impossible to exploit :P |
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| 15:46:55 | flaviu | Now with 200% more PCRE and 100% more angry dom96s! |
| 15:50:20 | gokr1 | flaviu: Ouch, my eyes... my eyesss!!! |
| 15:50:46 | gokr1 | Which reminds me to take a look at the peg stuff in Nim, is it good? |
| 15:51:27 | gokr1 | Ok, time to pack the bag and go play badminton. Keep up the good work, and Dominik - make that forum rock, ok? :) |
| 15:51:45 | flaviu | Yes, it's nice. The reason I didn't use it is because of some weirdness I don't recall right now. |
| 15:52:52 | flaviu | dom96: The forum is down again, it looks like. |
| 15:53:33 | dom96_ | keeps crashing the same way, what are you doing? |
| 15:53:33 | dom96_ | https://gist.github.com/dom96/27084b8f9ccc64210952 |
| 15:53:50 | gour | in a recent time, after seeing progress of asciidoctor, i'm more into asiidoc (instead of rst & markdown). now there is also asciidoctor.js enabling to render asciidoctor in browser. |
| 15:54:05 | dom96_ | oh yeah, you were the one who made that awful regex markdown parser... |
| 15:54:15 | dom96_ | :P |
| 15:54:27 | dom96_ | gokr1: i'll try heh. |
| 15:54:48 | flaviu | dom96_: I'm not doing anything, I'm just using it normally |
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| 18:04:35 | Araq | flaviu: can you fix rstgen.renderImage to prevent this attack? |
| 18:04:45 | Araq | (that's where I think the bug is) |
| 18:05:56 | flaviu | Yeah, but that won't fix the general CSRF attack |
| 18:07:14 | flaviu | nimforum needs to generate a unique token for each page load that's submittable, and needs to verify that the submission has that token. |
| 18:07:49 | flaviu | It also needs to start using real, 100% unique session ids. |
| 18:09:13 | Araq | btw better usage of 'distinct string' would have prevented this rstgen bug ... |
| 18:09:31 | Araq | if I only I would practice what I preach |
| 18:11:03 | flaviu | No, it wouldn't have. The url cannot be escaped in the same way as html, so there's still a good chance you wouldn't have escaped it. |
| 18:12:08 | Araq | can't follow |
| 18:13:05 | flaviu | You can't escape http://foo.com/search?q=123&b as http://foo.com/search?q=123&b |
| 18:15:04 | flaviu | So there would be a good chance that you would forget to consider that urls can contain `"` or `'` or ``` |
| 18:15:40 | Araq | well an URL within an HTML document surely is escaped this way |
| 18:15:40 | flaviu | Or `\\$` |
| 18:16:19 | flaviu | the visible url is escaped that way, the href="..." is escaped differently. |
| 18:17:00 | flaviu | Perhaps I misunderstood what you said |
| 18:19:40 | Araq | my knowledge of the xml spec is rusty, but are you sure about this? |
| 18:20:00 | Araq | iirc it's allowed to escape it the same way |
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| 18:25:48 | flaviu | <a href="https://google.com/search?q=">https://google.com/search?q=%20foo%20bar%3E%3C&ie=UTF-8">https://google.com/search?q= foo bar><&ie=UTF-8</a> |
| 18:28:08 | dom96_ | You can escape the " though |
| 18:28:12 | dom96_ | Which is the real issue I think. |
| 18:28:37 | flaviu | I guess you can escape the href in the same way as the contents, but the urls would no longer be equivalent since no URI parser cares about the &; escapes |
| 18:28:49 | flaviu | dom96_: That only partially fixes the problem |
| 18:28:56 | dom96_ | I feel like we need something separated away from the rst gen. |
| 18:29:29 | flaviu | dom96_: read about CSRF |
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| 19:38:26 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 03d76c6 Elie Zedeck [+0 ±1 -0]: Added generic OpenWrt compilers for --cpu:mips |
| 19:38:26 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 04069bb Elie Zedeck [+0 ±1 -0]: Uses execve() in osproc on OpenWrt and uClibc-based platforms. |
| 19:38:26 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 605b4a8 Andreas Rumpf [+0 ±2 -0]: Merge pull request #1662 from eliezedeck/devel... 2 more lines |
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| 19:40:44 | bouliii_hopla | hello all. I got some time to start to implement x86 simd intrinsics https://github.com/bsegovia/x86_simd.nim I'll fix windows tomorrow at work (no windows now). Comments are welcome! |
| 19:41:57 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 90b606b Simon Krauter [+0 ±1 -0]: Fix issue #1660... 2 more lines |
| 19:41:57 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 11cb8ff Andreas Rumpf [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #1661 from trustable-code/PR7... 2 more lines |
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| 19:45:27 | Araq | hi dom96_ I disagree. rstgen is perfectly up for the task (except some bugs) |
| 19:46:07 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel f7dca91 Araq [+0 ±8 -0]: fixes #619 |
| 19:46:07 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 8349cee Araq [+1 ±4 -0]: fixes #1055 |
| 19:46:07 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 4c7c612 Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: document uClibc switch |
| 19:46:07 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 69a994b Araq [+0 ±3 -0]: Merge branch 'devel' of https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod into devel |
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| 19:53:22 | flaviu | Araq: I think the bigger reason is that Markdown has a huge market share and everyone knows it. |
| 19:55:04 | flaviu | RST is markup language for text, Markdown is a way of parsing typical text. |
| 19:56:02 | Araq | yeah yeah yeah bli bla blub |
| 19:56:29 | Araq | RST is almost a superset of markdown anyway |
| 19:56:40 | Araq | and I already added some markdown extensions |
| 19:56:48 | Araq | the obvious hole is URL syntax |
| 19:56:58 | Araq | can be easily added to |
| 19:57:37 | flaviu | But people don't want RST, they are used to markdown. The only place where RST is better is for definition lists. |
| 19:58:02 | dom96_ | Araq: Could you make the smileys non-const? |
| 19:58:08 | Araq | but I do want RST ... |
| 19:58:19 | Araq | dom96_: could you rename the filenames instead? |
| 19:58:32 | dom96_ | The new smileys I got are not gifs |
| 19:58:44 | dom96_ | and their size is different |
| 19:58:56 | dom96_ | You should allow me to specify the filenames and use some css class |
| 19:59:02 | dom96_ | so that I can easily specify the size |
| 19:59:33 | Araq | well given the recent security loopholes I don't want to make it non-const |
| 19:59:48 | dom96_ | that won't add any vulnerabilities |
| 19:59:54 | Araq | but you can change the consts to something more reasonable |
| 19:59:56 | dom96_ | bbl |
| 20:00:21 | flaviu | All that stuff is too much work |
| 20:00:23 | flaviu | <script src="//cdn.jsdelivr.net/emojione/1.3.0/lib/js/emojione.min.js"></script> |
| 20:00:47 | Araq | yeah let's add *more* scripts |
| 20:00:57 | Araq | that surely helps security |
| 20:01:36 | flaviu | Araq: That's not the way security works. |
| 20:02:24 | Araq | do not lecture me, boy |
| 20:02:38 | flaviu | All that needs to be done is add CSRF tokens and fix script injection. |
| 20:02:40 | flaviu | ? |
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| 20:04:11 | Mat3|coding | hi all |
| 20:06:18 | flaviu | Araq: I hope that was sarcasm, because that'd be awfully rude otherwise. |
| 20:07:13 | Araq | I cannot see how it's overly rude, I intended it to be a bit rude |
| 20:08:21 | flaviu | -_- |
| 20:09:46 | fowl | calling someone boy in america might get you punched in the face just saying |
| 20:10:08 | Araq | oh hrm |
| 20:10:15 | Araq | I wasn't aware of that |
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| 20:41:44 | flaviu | re. markdown, perhaps http://www.pell.portland.or.us/~orc/Code/discount/ would work? |
| 20:42:00 | flaviu | hastyscribe uses it and it seems to work quite well. |
| 20:44:59 | Mat3|coding | fowl: can such a reaction generally called as established in American society ? |
| 20:47:05 | Triplefox | "Boy" is used as a slur against blacks |
| 20:48:23 | flaviu | Yep, the only time when it's somewhat tolerated is when it's someone old and from the south. |
| 20:53:54 | Mat3|coding | hmm, I see but do not understand the essential for violence as the appropriate response |
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| 20:56:47 | flaviu | Well, not everyone would punch you, most would exercise moderation. But if someone random came up to you with that sort of tone, no one would fault you for punching them. |
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| 21:02:56 | onionhammer | flaviu https://github.com/onionhammer/onion-nimrod/tree/master/markdown |
| 21:04:18 | Araq | so how do you call a male child? |
| 21:04:48 | Araq | what do we do about: https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/issues/546 ? |
| 21:05:18 | Araq | this import path thing is a mess |
| 21:06:01 | Triplefox | Usually "kid", but boy is OK affectionately |
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| 21:08:27 | Triplefox | There are tons of exceptions with that word, it's mostly the "disrespectful term of address" that is viewed negatively |
| 21:21:02 | Mat3|coding | Araq: probably module reimports should not be possible at all |
| 21:21:41 | Araq | Mat3|coding: they are not and that's not the problem. |
| 21:23:17 | Araq | the only problem is that the current directory is prefered over the stdlib and for good reasons |
| 21:23:26 | Araq | well |
| 21:23:37 | Araq | you can override a stdlib module this way |
| 21:23:53 | Araq | which I consider a feature, but nobody really agrees with me |
| 21:24:30 | Araq | but what's the alternative? when I import foo and then later the stdlib too gets a 'foo' module, what should be used? |
| 21:25:24 | Araq | but hrm only modules in the cwd should see modules in the cwd I guess |
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| 21:32:13 | Mat3|coding | as you had written for standalone applications I see the usefulness of this behaviour |
| 21:33:53 | fowl | interesting |
| 21:34:19 | Mat3|coding | is someone here writing a kernel ? |
| 21:34:28 | Mat3|coding | I mean at current |
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| 21:49:40 | Araq | Mat3|coding: I don't think so |
| 21:56:07 | Mat3|coding | that is one scenario where I can think overriding a standard library can be useful. Because I can not estimate whether someone choosing Nim for OS development in future and the current behaviour allows overriding in an easy way I vote for call this a feature (and documentary it well) |
| 21:56:51 | Mat3|coding | well, I know that is a minority position for sure |
| 21:57:38 | Araq | well yeah that's what --os:standalone is about really |
| 22:00:05 | Mat3|coding | fine, one fewer issue. What's the next on the agenda ? |
| 22:00:15 | Mat3|coding | ;) |
| 22:01:29 | flaviu | If you want as specialized a use as a kernel, can't you just fork Nim? |
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| 22:04:24 | Mat3|coding | hmm, no, probably someone other would find that a good idea however |
| 22:05:53 | bouliiii | About stdlib, how much is it dependent on libc, in particular, malloc/free? Same for codegen to C. video games developer would strongly like kind of orthogonality here (with ease to replace allocators at least and all low level threading primitives). |
| 22:08:34 | Araq | hi bouliiii I can't review your stuff tonight, sorry |
| 22:08:46 | bouliiii | Araq: no problem no hurry :-) |
| 22:09:34 | bouliiii | Araq: I will check windows tomorrow anyway. And add some noSideEffect/sideEffect here and there (at least for the principle of it :-)) |
| 22:09:53 | Araq | well we don't use malloc but have our own mechanisms to override the memory manager, currently it only works via compile-time and you need to modifiy the source a bit. the latter can be fixed easily though |
| 22:11:11 | Araq | same for threading primitives |
| 22:13:30 | bouliiii | Araq: great! |
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| 23:00:45 | enurlyx | BitmapHeader = object {.pure, packed.} |
| 23:00:46 | enurlyx | typ: int16 |
| 23:00:46 | enurlyx | size: int32 |
| 23:00:46 | enurlyx | reserved: int32 |
| 23:00:46 | enurlyx | offbits: int32 |
| 23:01:59 | enurlyx | Hello, i try to write a bitmapheader to a file. But between type and size two bytes get padded. Do I miss something in the definition? I thougt with packed there would be no padding? |
| 23:03:28 | Araq | packed is passed to the C compiler and I dunno if it works |
| 23:03:41 | Araq | however, try this first please: |
| 23:03:54 | Araq | BitmapHeader {.packed.} = object ... |
| 23:06:51 | enurlyx | No, that makes no difference |
| 23:07:10 | Araq | look at the produced C code then please |
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| 23:08:26 | enurlyx | struct __attribute__((__packed__)) bitmapheader90006 { |
| 23:08:26 | enurlyx | NI16 Typ; |
| 23:08:26 | enurlyx | NI32 Size; |
| 23:08:26 | enurlyx | NI32 Reserved; |
| 23:08:26 | enurlyx | NI32 Offbits; |
| 23:08:27 | enurlyx | }; |
| 23:09:49 | bouliiii | I am starting to look at disasm from nim. There is something a bit nasty when relying on C compiler. Anything with sideeffect cannot go away: https://gist.github.com/bsegovia/8f6aed4b57e5bf2e61bf |
| 23:10:26 | enurlyx | Araq: Does this mean the c compiler is not doing the packing? |
| 23:11:07 | bouliiii | so basically, the final asm shows that the adder function is directly called (i.e. by cst propagation C compiler directly jumps to it) but the variable is still on the heap since it cannot be optimized. Is there middle opt planned for nim? |
| 23:11:26 | bouliiii | middle opt -> middle end opt |
| 23:13:02 | Araq | bouliiii: yes and it will remove exactly that among other things, but don't hold your breath. you can also very often templates instead of trivial closures |
| 23:13:17 | Araq | *can use |
| 23:14:06 | Araq | enurlyx: quite likely, but it's a stupid idea to begin with, what about endian differences? |
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| 23:19:14 | enurlyx | Mh ok. BMP is little endian |
| 23:21:49 | enurlyx | On the other hand i just wanted to write some bmp as output for some rasterization tests |
| 23:21:58 | enurlyx | Noting important |
| 23:22:21 | Araq | so write 4 explicit write calls :P |
| 23:22:30 | Araq | how hard can it be? |
| 23:28:12 | enurlyx | cool, i discovered the endians module :D |
| 23:28:58 | enurlyx | good night |
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