<< 19-04-2016 >>
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03:57:42cnclhttps://gist.github.com/randrew/d0eb0eb74ef61cfa556005eeb0b6c53e
03:57:47cnclam i doing something wrong? or is this a bug?
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04:06:36cnclit seems to be a bug
04:06:40cncli'll open an issue
04:14:02cnclhttps://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/4100
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04:58:51cncli'm trying to figure out how to solve it, but it will take me a while to learn about how the nim compiler works
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09:09:23Araq_cncl: it's not a bug
09:09:29Araq_it's documented behaviour.
09:09:49Araq_you need a wrapper anon proc to produce a fresh environment
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09:16:35cnclah ok
09:16:37cncli looked but didn't see
09:16:41cncli'll remove it
09:16:50cnclis it in the standard manual page?
09:17:47Araq_not sure. check news.txt and the manual
09:19:48cnclit's in news.txt
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09:26:06cnclproduces unexpected results for me, i guess :) now i supposed it produces expected results after reading news.txt
09:26:13cncls/supposed/suppose
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10:24:18cheatfatedom96, i have made PRs
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13:34:42dom96cheatfate: commented
13:35:07cheatfateyeah i see
13:36:03cheatfatedom96, its very hard to simulate this situation
13:39:17arnetheduckwhat does benign mean? lots of them in system but I can't find any uses
13:41:34dom96cheatfate: I know :\
13:43:58dom96arnetheduck: good question, I'm not sure
13:51:34arnetheduckdom96, at least I'm not alone then ;)
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14:03:28cheatfatedom96, ok i have made a test
14:04:50cheatfatei have modified asynchttpserver.nim to go to sleep after receiving connection for 5s and made disconnection remotely in this period and what do you think WSARecv returned?
14:07:11cheatfatenow i want to make bigger timeout to satisfy all tcp connection timeout limits
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14:35:11elrood_arnetheduck, benign was introduced with commit a639824e, but neither properly documented nor consequently implemented as it seems from a shallow glance. wickedly phrased it's gcsafe renamed ;) and if this doesn't wake up Araq for a more profound reply and rebuttal, i don't know what will :P
14:41:10cheatfatedom96, https://gist.github.com/cheatfate/7f1a2705807f6940540e731cbbc47d1e
14:41:41cheatfatedom96, so this lines can be safely removed
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14:57:44arnetheduckelrood_, thanks.. then I guess I just have to find out what gcsafe does ;)
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15:03:39cheatfatevegansk, are you here?
15:05:22cheatfate"signed integers" Mafia hits again :) i need your help here https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/4099#discussion_r60232449
15:09:00*niv sniggers
15:09:26elrood_the largest in32 is 32768? now that would be news
15:09:40nivprobably meant to say short/int16, but the point is valid regardless
15:11:47nivi wonder what the consequences would be to make all length params int64. this would be two pointer lengths on a 32 bit host and doesnt fit into a register anymore.
15:15:12cheatfateniv, sizeof(int) on 32 bit systems is 32 bit
15:15:20nivyes i am aware
15:15:22nivthats my point.
15:15:54nivbut if you make, for example, len(string) return a int64 instead of int, then on 32bit systems it would impact how the compiler could deal with it
15:15:55cheatfatebut length must not be signed because length cannot be negative...
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15:16:47nivi think having it signed isnt the issue - you need it to be signed for file seeking, for example
15:16:55nivthe issue is that it caps at 2GB (or 4 if unsigned)
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15:18:41cheatfatei think signed integers was made by people which dont like bitwise arithmetic
15:18:48nivesp. since nim claims to be "game engine ready", which regularily deal with huge asset files, this seems dubious to me
15:19:32federico3speaking of which, where's the pygame of Nim, that everybody wants? :D
15:19:54nivmaybe the way to go is to forbid 32bit architectures :p
15:20:14nivwaiting another 5 years or so will probably make my particular peeve solve itself
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15:23:01elroodyou're aware that a lot of microcontrollers aren't even 32bit yet and not going to be for quite a while?
15:23:19niv</joke> ..
15:23:55nivi dont know enough about how 16bit architectures would be impacted by having 64bit integers for stdlib
15:24:05nivi imagine the compiler has some ways to deal with it but it'd be much slower
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15:27:57elroodthat's the everlasting struggle with trying to be elegant, easy and high-level while still offering enough features and control for systems programming. it's too easy to jokingly maneuver a somewhat promising language into quicksand that way
15:28:39nivi agree and im not stating any "must be this way". my workaround is to provide compiler arch checks and warnings/errors, but its obviously not perfect
15:32:13*elrood throws some autotools and #ifdefs into the ring
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15:32:52nivthe thing is though, you cant redefine stdlib int values to be 64bit on a 32bit system no matter how much tooling you throw in front of it
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15:41:53cnclif you have a 2gb asset file you're not going to put it in a seq
15:42:00cnclyou'll allocate a buffer and use pointers
15:42:06cncland you don't have to worry about signed integers there
15:42:38nivhow are you supposed to seek a file to a offset beyond 2GB then?
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15:43:09cnclhow are you going to get a 2gb asset file into memory on a 32 bit system?
15:43:15cnclin windows or whatever
15:43:42nivyou dont have to have it all in memory, or do you? you can just seek to whereever and read the small chunk you want
15:43:57cnclyou don't need absolute addresses for that
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15:44:58cnclbtw unreal engine 4 uses signed 32-bit integers for all of its asset handling
15:45:01elroodfor anything that size you'd be using memory mapping, windowing and a suitable interface anyways, that's not an issue for a general-case stdlib-provided function
15:45:02cncleven on 64 bit platforms
15:45:35nivokay, got it
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15:46:08cnclin principle i agree with you that i would prefer to use unsigned integers for seq but i'm not too torn up about it being int by default in nim
15:46:24cnclit will never actually affect me
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16:23:19federico3is Nim targeting regular JS or asm.js?
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16:25:04derkaHello Guys
16:25:18reactormonko/
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16:27:46IcyFoxyIs it possible to increment a char?
16:28:01IcyFoxychar += 1 comains due to types
16:30:19dom96IcyFoxy: char = char(ord(char) + 1)
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16:32:55IcyFoxydom96: I actually concluded with `c = succ c` and then finished off my program to find that it worked perfectly as expected :P
16:33:17IcyFoxydom96: Thanks anyway. And I think the 'succ' function would be better here.
16:33:33dom96IcyFoxy: cool, didn't realise a 'succ' exists.
16:33:36dom96federico3: regular
16:34:31IcyFoxydom96: I'm just porting some challenge / code-golf a friend set. I guess the haskell is the simpliest to describe (one liner).
16:34:34IcyFoxymain = putStr (unlines (flip replicateM (['a'..'z'] ++ ['A'..'Z'] ++ ['0'..'9']) =<< [0..]))
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16:35:13IcyFoxyJust 0, 1, 2, .., 9, a, b, .., z, A, ..., Z, 00, 01, .., ZZZZZ
16:35:25IcyFoxy(Base62 iterator)
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16:36:58IcyFoxyCan anyone shed any light on why case/of/else share exact indentation? Kinda looks odd as one would expect the of/else to be *indented under case* ?
16:37:53IcyFoxyJust checked, or it just doesn't care? Still odd that the docs show no extra indentation.
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16:41:26*IcyFoxy wonders how best in nim to get clean, block buffered, locked(single thread) I/O writes to stdout. (After speed)
16:42:45IcyFoxyC's fwrite_unlocked seems to be the fastest. Not sure about how it should be used as the manpage hints that it shouldn't be used directly as is non-standard while flockfile + fwrite should be perfect. (echo also likes debug output.. don't want that, just want to fwrite a slice out)
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16:43:15BrotherLyimo Nim should adopt the same gc-less model that Rust has
16:43:19BrotherLyi dont want compromises
16:44:15ldleworkNo thanks.
16:44:42BrotherLyyou dont like memory safety?
16:45:15ldleworkYay, irrational arguments.
16:45:17IcyFoxyBrotherLy: I personally agree (as an FP currently using Rust). Although GC seems quite tightly chosen here.
16:45:31BrotherLywhats an 'FP' ?
16:46:03ldleworkBrotherLy: so, (GC ⊃ ¬Memory-safety) ?
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16:47:03BrotherLywell first of all GC is always slower than no GC and secondly i can unfortunately never trust a GC made by some random person on the internet over some proven GC like the one java or .net have
16:47:24IcyFoxyBrotherLy: Functional programming.
16:47:43ldleworkBut you would trust the ownership prover written by some random people on the internet.
16:47:45ldleworkSounds like FUD.
16:47:47IcyFoxyBrotherLy: I.e. Haskell, OCaml, Rust.
16:48:04ldleworkAlso, what does functional programming have to do with either having a GC or Memory Safety
16:48:13ldleworkPlease stop to think about what you're saying
16:49:08BrotherLywell i dont trust Rust that much either, but their claims are a little more easily verified. I can just run valgrind over my Rust program and verify it myself. How would I ever verify that nim doesnt leak memory?
16:49:14IcyFoxyldlework: Although Haskell uses GC. I agreed with that FP reference because GC is less pure in terms of predictive performance.
16:49:37ldleworkIcyFoxy: that has literally nothing to do with "FP"
16:49:41ldleworkAt all.
16:49:46ldleworkIn the slightest.
16:50:33ldleworkAlso, as a Nim programmer you should know that Nim's GC is completely controllable in terms of its runtime.
16:50:54federico3...including turning it off if you don't like it
16:50:59IcyFoxyldlework: Okay well.. I generally avoid GC, although happy to use it with nim.
16:51:18ldleworkIcyFoxy: OK
16:51:21IcyFoxyfederico3: Where the compiler then guides you where things would leak.
16:51:44BrotherLyok so what if i turn it off?
16:51:56BrotherLyNim should have the same kind of ownership system like Rust
16:52:03ldleworkNo, it shouldn't.
16:52:23BrotherLythat would actually be the best compromise ever: give me an ownership system if i care enough to use it, and if i dont it will just use the gc
16:52:51ldleworkLet's just make a magic language where you can do anything you whimsically fants'y
16:53:08elroodactually, the best compromise would be to use rust? or design your own language?
16:53:09ldleworkOr how about we make specific languages do their specific thing well.
16:53:47ldleworkIts pretty childish to show up in a language channel and start demanding that the entire language shift paradigms to emulate some other pet language.
16:54:48BrotherLyno, what is childish is to call other people childish without responding to arguments beyond "no, we wont do that just because"
16:55:13ldleworkI've already reasoned why your demand is unreasonable.
16:55:23elroodif the demands were worded differently or based on an informed and sound assessment the reactions would be different
16:55:44IcyFoxyBrotherLy: I can say that I would be happy with more ownership systems. And to my knowledge nim's templating / macros may be possible enough to implement this in nim with LOTS of hacks. :P
16:56:07IcyFoxyI'm new to nim though. So I could be wrong here.
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16:56:23ldleworkIcyFoxy: If any language could get there, that way, it is probably Nim.
16:57:19Xepretty much nim or lisp lol
16:57:43elroodwell, to be nitpicky, since Nim is compiled down to C the obvious conclusion would be that C can and has got there :P
16:57:45IcyFoxyBrotherLy: --gc:none then look for reference counting in nim.
16:57:55IcyFoxyActually...
16:58:03IcyFoxy--gc:refc ? Reference counting ? :P
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16:58:52*IcyFoxy is happy with the flexibility nim provides for these kinda of options... *VERY*
16:58:57BrotherLyi think reference counting is also a form of GC
16:59:02*IcyFoxy will likely not experiment with these anyway.
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17:00:10IcyFoxyBrotherLy: At least in rust it's called predictively through deconstructors. I wonder how nim's refcounting works here. End of scope, or end of paths it may be used? IIRC Swift's GC folds down at compile time (and I have *ZERO* experience with swift).
17:00:57IcyFoxyldlework: Would you happen to have better insight for the internal GC details here?
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17:01:15IcyFoxyDefault is reference counting too.
17:01:25ldleworkBrotherLy | i think reference counting is also a form of GC
17:01:36ldleworkThere's nothing productive to move this conversation forward.
17:02:14dom96BrotherLy: Nothing stopping you from implementing an ownership system in Nim :P
17:03:06*jeffc joined #nim
17:03:15dom96or you could always fund the effort https://www.bountysource.com/teams/nim
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17:05:06federico3maybe $200K would do for an ownership system
17:06:01IcyFoxyHigh performance nim question. How *should* I do buffered, locked fwrite's (write slice) to stdout?
17:06:14IcyFoxylocked/unlocked (one thread; after speed here)
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17:11:31elroodIcyFoxy, probably depends on the system or even kernel version you're using. if in doubt, fill a 64kb buffer and only then flush ;)
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17:12:59IcyFoxyelrood: Odd thing is that in Rust for the ideal solution here. I got 15s after locking and writing. C 30s, lock down to 28s, ignore locking and use fwrite_unlocked and *just* beat rust at 14.??s.
17:13:31IcyFoxyAnd I didn't have to do any additional buffering on my Gentoo box, which uses a block buffer of 4096 by default.
17:13:51IcyFoxyWhich goes against the man page for stdio and is not replicated on my nixos.
17:14:57IcyFoxyelrood: "fill a 64k buffer" So... buf: array[0..64 * 1024]; setbuffer(buf, 64*1024) (or setvbuf) ?
17:15:51IcyFoxy(Rust may equal the C performance if various checks were disabled, didn't try)
17:21:51IcyFoxyecho slice... stdout. has no fwrite? :/
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17:23:50nivis it somehow possible to mark a proc prototype that i then pass in to another proc as async?
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17:25:36IcyFoxyniv: Where does async come into play here?
17:25:54nivIcyFoxy: i want my callback to be awaitable
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17:27:14cheatfatedom96, please review PRs
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17:28:36IcyFoxyniv: I'm sorry I don't think I can help. Good luck. (Not sure what exactly you mean and new to nim)
17:28:51nivIcyFoxy: thanks anyways :)
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17:29:32IcyFoxy:)
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17:30:27dom96niv: just make the return type a Future[T]
17:30:33dom96the return type of your proc
17:30:39nivdom96: okay, and leave the pragma off?
17:31:05dom96yes, if it's just a proc type
17:31:16nivi just do: type MyCB = proc(params): Future[retval]; then give that as a param to another proc. the other proc should be able to await it
17:31:27nivI'll try that :)
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17:39:21IcyFoxyHow do I get the 'ptr char' of the first element in an array? (Or the array itself rather0
17:39:24IcyFoxy)
17:39:53IcyFoxyFigured it out. v[0].addr
17:40:43nivdom96: cant get it to work :(
17:41:05nivhttps://gist.github.com/niv/3b8760c423c71f944b3f2a4524cb8109 what am i doing wrong?
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17:42:26dom96hrm, let me take a look
17:42:53nivits a rather odd error message. cant see what it would possibly want me to discard
17:44:23nivdom96: iactually messed up the example, the expensive op should be inside the callback instance of course. but the error remains the same
17:44:31dom96Seems like a bug with either the {.async.} macro or how Nim handles the AST that was generated by it. This works: https://gist.github.com/dom96/d6552441dce494e3d58e4930057a3cf6
17:45:15nivah, okay. that's whats the async pragma does?
17:45:24dom96as does this https://gist.github.com/dom96/497721003c7d12643d27e564196b1337
17:45:32dom96basically yeah.
17:45:48dom96Seems you can get away with using the {.async.} pragma, as long as you don't nest it into the call like that
17:45:53dom96But please report this as an issue
17:45:55nivgood to know. thank you
17:46:04nivwill do
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17:46:06dom96cheatfate: will do later on, sorry.
17:50:23IcyFoxyHow do you tell nim to force stdout to be block buffered?
17:50:38IcyFoxyWithout getting setvbuf manually in via FFI? :P
17:51:19nivdom96: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/4102 hope this will do
17:51:55dom96niv: brilliant thanks
17:53:00nivdom96: no, no, thank YOU for listening/helping :)
17:53:24dom96niv: np :)
17:55:04IcyFoxyHow is the string type in nim defined?
17:55:11IcyFoxyNull terminated or length?
17:55:13reactormonkboth
17:55:23IcyFoxyThat works.
17:55:24IcyFoxyThanks
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21:37:05cheatfateAraq_, its not so easy to adopt asynchttpserver for multithreading as i think before...
21:40:01cheatfatejust because of strings and refs everywhere
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23:51:08krux02is anyone online, who uses spacemacs for nim?
23:51:37krux02I just tried it out, and instantly liked it, but some some reason I can not get nim completion to work
23:52:38krux02and for some reasone company and flycheck are not enable by default even though I wrote in the conifg, that they should globally be toggled to be on