<< 20-10-2017 >>

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00:46:43	libman	https://dubst3pp4.github.io/post/2017-10-03-why-i-use-object-pascal/
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00:47:57	darkn0de	I'm trying to get TLS to fail on a bad host certificate... but it doesn't look like it ever will.
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00:48:30	darkn0de	Looking carefully at openssl.nim, it appears that a lot of openssl symbols are not ex(im)ported
00:48:54	darkn0de	getting net.nim to properly verify certs is going to be challenging...
00:50:08	darkn0de	I'll be back in in an hour... but have a couple of interesting things though: http://bradconte.com/using-load_verify_locations https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/782 https://wiki.openssl.org/index.php/Manual:SSL_CTX_load_verify_locations(3) https://wiki.openssl.org/index.php/Manual:SSL_CTX_set_verify(3)
00:50:28	darkn0de	in short.. think we're doing it wrong. :)
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06:53:21	FromGitter	<Varriount> Yardanico: Your English is way better than my German.
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06:54:21	FromGitter	<Varriount> If you talk even half as well as you write, you'll be quite understandable.
06:56:22	PMunch	Huh, the reddit topic for yesterdays stream had ~20 upvotes when I went to bed. Now it's >70
06:58:58	Arrrr	What did you learn from the stream?
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07:35:03	FromGitter	<dom96> Araq's destructors blog post is on HN front page ⭕
07:35:13	FromGitter	<dom96> *:o
07:39:24	PMunch	Nice!
07:39:33	PMunch	It was an interesting read
07:42:25	livcd	where is the video from araq about destructors ? i can't seem to find it
07:44:28	FromGitter	<mratsim> Waiting for edits
07:44:46	Arrrr	"we get a much nicer state len == 0 that is not as prone to crashes as nil" what is index out of bounds
07:45:09	livcd	dom96 is it ? not in my feedly....
07:46:15	PMunch	Arrrr, true but with "for x in y" it would simply skip if it had len == 0
07:46:44	Arrrr	mmm, that's right. Not that it solves every problem
07:50:35	Arrrr	is sink implemented?
07:51:43	Arrrr	I don't see the reason to use sink in the provided example
07:54:02	Arrrr	"return values tend to be bad for high performance code" wtf
07:54:24	PMunch	Yup
07:54:53	PMunch	I don't think sink is implemented, he mentions that there really isn't a need for it at the end of the article
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07:58:53	Arrrr	But you have to replace procs with templates
08:02:43	Arrrr	Interesting article, there should be more documentation on what moves generates garbage
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08:10:32	miran	most of the discussion on that link is about c++ as far as i could tell from briefly going trough comments....
08:11:50	gokr	He, interesting: https://github.com/Microsoft/napajs
08:12:41	gokr	Freaking js is seeping in everywhere.
08:14:30	PMunch	It's so strange
08:14:44	PMunch	I don't really understand what makes people so obsessed with JS
08:15:40	euantor	Lots of documentation that is easy for beginners to understand. Lots of tools to aid development and to aid learning. Lots of people know the language already so can help others learn.
08:16:03	PMunch	Maybe it has something to do with accessibility? And I think most programmers have at some point taken a look at JS if they wanted to do something on a web-page so it's a lot of exposure as well..
08:16:13	euantor	it has its quirks, but it sure is easy to dive in and get something working
08:16:22	PMunch	euantor, yeah now that's true. But how did that all start?
08:16:52	euantor	Mostly because it is/was the _only_ choice for writing an interactive web page. As the web has grown, so too has JS
08:17:02	PMunch	It's not that long ago that JS was just a horrible cross-platform mess for browsers to scrape by on
08:17:32	euantor	then v8 came along and web developers realised they could start writing the same code for both backend and frontend
08:17:41	PMunch	Yeah, I guess it was just a case of everyone knowing it since it was the only choice for web, then it just spiraled from there
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08:24:49	euantor	Yep, and now we have desktop apps running inside Chrome instances wasting memory
08:26:43	PMunch	Hoorah
08:29:01	Arrrr	all your apps are belong to us
08:32:03	FromGitter	<dandevelo> So is Nim moving to a no-GC world?
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08:33:42	crem	That's a nice world.
08:34:30	FromGitter	<dandevelo> I was hoping for a "Yes" answer :D
08:34:48	FromGitter	<dandevelo> Now looking for the "when" answer
08:36:27	euantor	It's a while off yet
08:38:00	Arrrr	i hope gc is still supported in the future
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08:41:13	euantor	Regarding the earlier > "return values tend to be bad for high performance code" wtf
08:42:14	euantor	Isn't `result` currently a way to get around that? I seem to remember that it's allocated in the caller's stack frame or something
08:42:42	euantor	I remember it being mentioned here a while back anyway, but can't remember what was actually said
08:43:23	Araq	dandevelop: it's moving into this direction but it's in the "early prototype" stage. I think we should release v1 by the end of this year and then do more experiments
08:43:34	Araq	the perfect is the enemy of the good or something like that
08:44:22	Araq	euantor, read my blog. the problem is that the semantics are different, you cannot optimize semantic differences ;-)
08:44:45	euantor	Currently reading it now, only just got to that sentence :)
08:47:34	Arrrr	Can't you move it?
08:52:24	FromGitter	<dom96> @Araq please start answering questions here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15512249
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08:57:10	miran	Araq: so this is something for v2.0?
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09:06:01	Araq	miran, I think so.
09:07:19	Araq	though most users that have big Nim projects out there do not really care about the version, they want the language to evolve and do not mind code breakages that much. ymmv.
09:08:09	PMunch	Hmm, in a macro is it possible to get the actual type of a distinct int from a typed argument
09:08:25	PMunch	getType only gives me distinct int
09:08:39	miran	learn from python2/python3 language evolution :D
09:08:39	Araq	PMunch, getTypeImpl
09:08:53	PMunch	Thanks :)
09:12:52	PMunch	Hmm, that didn't seem to work
09:13:17	PMunch	getTypeInst seems to work though
09:19:04	suswombat__	Hey everyone
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09:20:45	Arrrr	hello my friend
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09:38:15	miran	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15512249 still has the most comments about other programming languages, rather than nim :(
09:40:44	livcd	Araq: maybe that's just because these are not serious projects or "we invested money/effort" projects. I would say code breakage is painful :S
09:42:22	Araq	livcd, er excuse me? they definitely invested good money
09:44:09	livcd	ah ok
09:44:31	livcd	i thought you were talking in general
09:45:17	livcd	so you are saying the big projects that use Nim do not mind code breakages that much because they have the resources to deal with them
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09:48:42	FromGitter	<andreaferretti> @Araq there is a inherent bias. The big projects that exist *right now* are more likely to accept breakage because the possible big project that do not accept it are not started until a stable v1 comes out
09:49:04	FromGitter	<andreaferretti> You also have to look at the projects that do not exist :-)
09:49:18	FromGitter	<andreaferretti> Exactly because of this reason
09:49:34	suswombat__	Naive noob question. What code is going to break?
09:53:23	FromGitter	<Yardanico> No code is going to break now
09:53:23	federico3	yours
09:53:40	suswombat__	federico3, damn :/ :D
09:53:44	federico3	suswombat__: sorry, I couldn't resist :D
09:54:17	suswombat__	federico3, no worries it was propably a dumb question anyways :)
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09:56:12	federico3	breakage is not a binary thing. If code breaks with a deprecation warning and a clear hint on how to fix it it's a small nuisance. If it breaks in silent, subtle ways it's really bad.
09:57:36	livcd	sure i mean how many changes and breaks there have been for swift ? :)
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10:02:09	euantor	put it this way: each time there's a new Swift release there's also a new Swift code migration tool release ;)
10:02:30	euantor	THe fact they have to provide such a tool to migrate code to a new verison shows that BC is clearly not a priority
10:04:47	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> hi everyone
10:06:21	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> I saw araq's post about manual mem management on HN. Super excited about this. I gave nim a spin a couple of years back and liked what I saw, but for me GC is an issue because a) I'm a c++ dev and memory management is not that hard once you know what you're doing and b) because I'm an audio dev (my company: https://zenaud.io ) and GC is something that I need to circumvent.
10:09:27	FromGitter	<mratsim> @euantor it's true return values are "much" slower for ref type (if in hot path), due to multiple call to the GenericReset, Memset 0, checkNil. There are ways around that: templates, using result, using {.noInit.}
10:09:45	PMunch	Hi Martin, yeah the new GC less features will open a couple doors for Nim I think
10:11:02	FromGitter	<mratsim> Hi Martin, it's not hard to avoid GC, I just use `type Foo = ptr object` or `type Foo = ptr UncheckedArray[int]`
10:12:22	FromGitter	<mratsim> I'm writing a high performance tensor library in Nim and you sometimes I just want no GC array or no GC objects, sometimes I want the GC and there are some tricks to make it behave
10:14:06	Araq	mratsim: Not sure if that's not simply a codegen bug though, I wouldn't draw theoretical conclusions from this
10:14:32	suswombat__	Anyone in here using vscode for nim and can tell me how much memory the nimsuggest processes spawned by the nim extension use?
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10:14:56	Araq	suswombat, too much, omg :-)
10:15:06	FromGitter	<mratsim> @Araq yes probably, I think they are all reported
10:15:27	FromGitter	<Yardanico> Suswombat: nimsuggest usually uses 100-300mb
10:15:32	suswombat	Araq, was that a sarcastic answer? not sure sry
10:15:32	FromGitter	<Yardanico> But sometimes can leak
10:15:36	PMunch	What!?
10:15:39	PMunch	That's crazy
10:15:50	FromGitter	<mratsim> @suswombat__ the issue is the number of nimsuggests that are spawned ... And the CPU eaten
10:16:31	suswombat	so this is normal? https://i.imgur.com/qaKGCHb.png
10:16:53	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> My two cents: there's a once-in-a-generation opportunity for a language to become "the next C++". This is because C++ has acquired so much baggage that it is very difficult for noobs to learn. In addition, the pace of change of the project is relatively slow due to design-by-committee. To my mind, the race is on for some language to offer similar performance characteristics ("leave no space below"), and
10:16:53	FromGitter	... indeed several languages, like C2, Zig, and not the least, Rust, have emerged in a bid to claim that space. When you look at the popularity of python, it is due to a number of factors but the intuitive syntax is a clear selling point. And nim is very similar in this regard. Now I realize that GC is a very useful te ... [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59e9cd15f7299e8f530ea77f]
10:16:58	Arrrr	is `return "String"` optimized to "result = "String" ?
10:17:34	FromGitter	<Yardanico> No
10:17:42	FromGitter	<Yardanico> But I may be wrong
10:19:10	FromGitter	<Yardanico> @MartinPercossi_twitter Nim's GC is more performant than Java or C# or Go
10:19:16	Araq	Arrrr, pretty much, it is
10:19:40	FromGitter	<Yardanico> And there's no stop the world
10:19:54	FromGitter	<Yardanico> Also you can use realtime gc
10:19:54	Araq	dom96, I see interesting comments but no questions I should answer
10:20:18	Arrrr	Fine then
10:20:37	dom96	Araq: Engage with them.
10:20:41	dom96	There really are questions though...
10:20:43	dom96	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15514374
10:20:48	FromGitter	<mratsim> Just say hi, "We want you, Nim recruits"
10:21:39	dom96	Better yet, write a top-level comment saying "Author of the article here, thank you for submitting it. Feel free to AMA."
10:22:41	Arrrr	This
10:23:14	Arrrr	You need more exposition Araq, is for the good of this community
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10:24:12	FromGitter	<mratsim> @MartinPercossi_twitter It's probably not advertised enough but Nim GC is easily deactivated AND there are 4 implementations: deferred RC, Mark and Sweep, Memory Region, Real-time (max pause tunable) and you can directly access Nim memory allocator/free.
10:25:03	FromGitter	<Yardanico> Also boehm gc
10:25:17	FromGitter	<Yardanico> And Go a
10:25:24	FromGitter	<Yardanico> Go GC :D
10:25:30	FromGitter	<mratsim> There is a huge stigma with GC but it doesn't have to be that way, as evidenced by the number of game programmer (and game framework bindings). Stopping the game due to GC is a big no-no.
10:25:48	FromGitter	<mratsim> Ah forgot about Boehm
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10:28:14	FromGitter	<GooRoo> Hi guys. Sorry that I'm interrupting your discussion, but have a small off-topic question: is there anything like Either from Haskell or std::variant from C++ in Nim's standard library?
10:29:15	Arrrr	Nope, only Option. I'd like to see Either in the stblib
10:29:42	FromGitter	<GooRoo> I see... okay then :) thanks
10:29:46	FromGitter	<Yardanico> You can implement your own though :P
10:29:47	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> @mratsim - as I mentioned, I realize that there are merits to GC for certain types of tasks. And I agree that some of the stigma against them is unwarranted. That said: GC is a well-researched topic. I'm sceptical that Nim provides some new "special sauce" that makes it much more performant than other, more mature, implementations. In addition, the advances in C++, Rust, and Swift show that using smart
10:29:47	FromGitter	... pointers along with RAII can alleviate much of the cognitive burden imposed by manually tracking memory. So my feeling is that the tide is turning against GC, and with the increased importance of low-power-consumption, it seems likely that this trend could continue for some time.
10:30:12	PMunch	There is this Either, from nimfp: https://github.com/vegansk/nimfp/blob/master/src/fp/either.nim
10:30:26	PMunch	GooRoo ^
10:30:36	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> Therefore I would prefer that the language sticks more to value semantics, and abandons GC :) But again, just my two cents and I realize I'm not really a contributing member of this community so feel free to ignore my comments! :)
10:30:48	FromGitter	<GooRoo> @Yardanico I can implement my own one in Haskell as well, but it's still present in standard library though ;)
10:31:45	PMunch	MacrtinPercossi_twitter, all comments are welcome :) Just as important to hear what "outsiders" mean
10:32:21	PMunch	GooRoo, often you see the kind pattern used in eg. the Json module
10:32:33	FromGitter	<Yardanico> @GooRoo well Nim is not a functional language. It has some functional features, but still.
10:32:44	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> @mratsim - realtime GC -- I'm guessing this is not stop-the-world. What happens if I have multiple threads? Can memory be shared across them? Or am I restricted to message-passing/channel type mechanism?
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10:33:10	FromGitter	<Yardanico> You can share memory with raw pointers
10:33:19	PMunch	GooRoo, this: https://nim-lang.org/docs/json.html#JsonNodeObj
10:33:26	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> @Yardanico cool
10:33:28	FromGitter	<Yardanico> Or channels/spawn
10:34:04	dom96	@GooRoo: if you create a PR to add an Either type to the stdlib then I'll be happy to accept it :)
10:34:07	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> Yeah most people are doing it with channels nowadays, which makes sense because they make certain types of comm elegant.
10:34:31	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> If I use channels can I guarantee that a realtime thread will never call malloc?
10:35:22	FromGitter	<Yardanico> I don't think you can use different GC for different channels
10:35:33	FromGitter	<Yardanico> *threads
10:35:47	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> In c++ how I handle this is I have a ring buffer with max msg size, each entry is an inplace_function, this allows a task framework (see Sean Parent's work) but in a RT scenario.
10:36:06	FromGitter	<mratsim> @MartinPercossi_twitter I use OpenMP in my tensor library with shared memory
10:36:14	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> I would expect you can't use different GC on different threads.
10:36:43	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> @mratsim right but my guess is that tensor lib cares about throughput but not so much about latency.
10:36:55	FromGitter	<GooRoo> @Yardanico Do std::variant, QVariant, or raw union after all belong to functional programming? It's just a data structure
10:37:17	FromGitter	<GooRoo> @PMunch, thanks, I use exactly the same approach
10:37:21	dom96	@MartinPercossi_twitter: Thank you for joining to give us your opinion. Personally I wouldn't have started using Nim without a GC. I definitely want the support for no GC to be expanded, I don't mind how that is done as long as I can continue to use the GC as I do now.
10:37:34	FromGitter	<GooRoo> @dom96, I'll think about it -)
10:37:35	dom96	But let's not get rid of GC completely :)
10:38:31	euantor	I think no GC in the stdlib would be really nice, then leave consumers to decide if they want/need a GC
10:38:46	euantor	I believe that is the direction that D is trying to ehad in too
10:38:49	euantor	*head
10:39:09	FromGitter	<mratsim> @MartinPercossi_twitter Indeed, in any case, I had to drop to very low-level memory management, with shared memory because it’s the only way to do parallelism on 1GB~8GB tensor objects so it’s possible. And for latency better to ask all the game devs in the Nim community ;)
10:39:20	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> Thanks for the warm welcome, @dom96 ! I agree that there's no need to remove it, my feeling is that you can simply add a nice set of value types that exist outside of its operation.
10:40:04	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> @euantorano - I second your opinion of no GC in stdlib.
10:40:21	FromGitter	<mratsim> @MartinPercossi_twitter you might be interested in my article about low level memory management in Nim: https://andre-ratsimbazafy.com/high-performance-tensor-library-in-nim/#how-low-level-memory-management-in-nim
10:40:22	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> Dlang is a cautionary tale here ;)
10:40:57	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> I already read it a few days ago, @mratsim -- really interesting article and nice job!
10:40:58	FromGitter	<Yardanico> @MartinPercossi_twitter what do you mean by value types? Simple Nim objects don't need GC
10:41:21	FromGitter	<Yardanico> Floats, ints, etc work without GC
10:41:42	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> @Araq 's article mentions making e.g. containers behave like value types. This is a IMHO a good idea.
10:41:43	dom96	Yardanico: that is what value types are
10:41:44	FromGitter	<Yardanico> Strings and sequences will work without GC in the near future
10:43:28	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> I personally prefer everything to be value types, by which I mean, I'
10:44:06	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> I'm not a huge fan of hybrid type systems where there are some "reference" objects (classes) and then there are "structs" which obey value semantics, have destructors, etc.
10:44:29	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> Because then the question invariably arises "should my Foo be a class or a struct"?
10:45:18	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> And usually you end up going for a class, and then everything becomes a big object salad like in Java. The gravitational pull of reference semantics is extremely strong for some reason.
10:45:28	Arrrr	In nim the question usually is "Object or Tuple?"
10:46:00	FromGitter	<Yardanico> They're the same if no object inheritance is used
10:46:09	FromGitter	<Yardanico> I mean the same in memory layout
10:46:47	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> Right but what about constructors/destructors? Objects allocated with GC will typically not have destructors invoked (at least not using scopes, i.e. deterministically)
10:46:52	dom96	Arrrr: I don't think that's true
10:49:16	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> At the risk of being rude: is there any time-frame with regard to @Araq 's proposed changes? Any design documents? I would be love to take a look at anything that's there.
10:51:25	euantor	Well the destructors work has been commited to the repository and I believe @Araq was going to add a Wiki page
10:51:46	euantor	https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/commit/35c8b5e3bcc13ade6441f1b53ee8d3acacffded3
10:51:50	euantor	https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/commit/7b8c8f3e482e3b22cd1eeaa67ee6f5cb71ae84e1
10:51:54	euantor	(and several others)
10:52:24	FromGitter	<mratsim> There is no classes in Nim so no gravitational pull ;). However what is asked recurrently is “How to do an interface in Nim?"
10:52:51	euantor	And it doesn't look like the Wiki page is up yet. That blog post is probably the closest there is to a design document/specification
10:53:07	euantor	Time frame is not this year - the plan this year is for v1 as far as I understand
10:53:35	dom96	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15514806
10:53:50	dom96	Araq: Keep an eye out and answer questions :)
10:53:59	dom96	bbl, lecture time
10:57:36	FromGitter	<Yardanico> @mratsim as Araq says (and that's true) - interface is just an array of closures
10:58:46	FromGitter	<Yardanico> And there are libraries for Nim which can autogenerate these for you
10:58:58	Araq	MartinPercossi_twitter: plans are constantly changing but I expect the destructor feature to be useful within weeks, making it replace the GC within years :-) but what makes this discussion really hard is that the terms are so fuzzy
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11:00:38	Araq	strings and seqs mostly change in the implementation, it's not much of a breaking change and 'ref' could become an atomic RC'ed pointer with "trial deletion" for cycle detection
11:01:01	Araq	same language, completely different runtime profile
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11:01:47	Araq	my educated guess, "slower but works with the outside world and much more helpful for multi threading things"
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11:03:14	FromGitter	<mratsim> I think the move/sink would bring speed in my use case. And I would love to have a fast tensor library with value semantics, even on GPU.
11:03:48	Araq	"And usually you end up going for a class, and then everything becomes a big object salad like in Java. The gravitational pull of reference semantics is extremely strong for some reason." excellent remark, I agree completely
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11:09:42	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> @Araq - thanks for the time estimate, I realize that for big projects such estimates are hard to give. Your changes sound extremely attractive, as I said I find the language very elegant and powerful, and would love to see these additions in due time.
11:11:43	Araq	well additions are easy, it's the replacement of the existing runtime with a different one that causes stomach ache
11:12:31	Araq	I can see "ok, I can write my own seqs now, that's all I really need" working out for many people but eventually new stuff should replace old stuff
11:20:26	FromGitter	<Yardanico> Araq: Btw, will opt type will be available before 1.0?
11:20:38	FromGitter	<Yardanico> *type be
11:21:35	FromGitter	<edubart> @Araq in the destructors post, I liked the idea of having `result` as a var in the last parameter of a proc instead of the traditional way of returning, this would generate much more optimized C code as I've noticed that few days ago. I thought of redoing my procs like that, but would make the code not so readable, so instead of using result as a var param everywhere, or not using, I ended up with a mix where I needed
11:21:35	FromGitter	... more performance, and using lots of `{.noInit.}` where I used the traditional result
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11:23:36	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> Completely unrelated question: can the community recommend a command-line parsing library? commandeer and cligen look interesting, if anyone has experiences with these libs I
11:23:40	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> I'd be happy to hear.
11:24:17	Yardanico	there's also docopt
11:25:01	Yardanico	https://github.com/docopt/docopt.nim
11:26:02	FromGitter	<MartinPercossi_twitter> @Yardanico thanks
11:26:36	FromGitter	<dandevelo> How can I generate a string with the parameter name from a parameter passed to a template?
11:27:28	FromGitter	<dandevelo> template(SOMETHING) = echo "You passed " & ? what ? should be in order to output "You passed SOMETHING"
11:29:56	FromGitter	<mratsim> @dandevelo astToStr
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11:41:41	FromGitter	<dandevelo> Thanks @mratsim! That's what I needed
11:42:37	Yardanico	mratsim: didn't knew about that one, thanks too :D
11:43:27	FromGitter	<mratsim> You write too much macros and not enough templates ;)
11:43:30	Arrrr	Some comments on reddit too about the blog post
11:43:38	Yardanico	mratsim: probably
11:45:02	FromGitter	<mratsim> wow people are aggressive @Arrrr
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11:45:51	Yardanico	Arrrr, where?
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11:46:05	Yardanico	oh wait, someone shared araq blog post on programming?
11:46:15	Yardanico	oh, I see
11:46:20	Arrrr	https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/77ko76/nim_pointer_free_programming/
11:46:28	Yardanico	yeah, I found it
11:46:44	Arrrr	The return thing probably is because ignores the existance of result
11:47:04	Arrrr	*existence
11:48:17	Yardanico	guys
11:48:24	FromGitter	<mratsim> The poster thought it was “harmful for everyone"
11:48:36	Yardanico	we have two nim related posts on /r/programming in the top 15
11:48:40	FromGitter	<mratsim> (not Nim limited)
11:48:50	Yardanico	araq's stream - 14, blog post - 7
11:48:56	Yardanico	:P
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12:24:44	Yardanico	dom96, will you need a twitch-relay enabled for your channel?
12:24:51	Yardanico	on today's stream
12:25:00	dom96	sure
12:25:39	Yardanico	dom96, just do "/mod FromIRC" so we won't hit message rate limit :P
12:25:48	Yardanico	I'll start it now
12:26:39	dom96	Yardanico: done
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12:26:45	dom96	Araq: Can you autohost my channel?
12:26:55	Yardanico	dom96, I've enabled it
12:27:29	dom96	Yardanico: thx
12:27:55	PMunch	Should we put it in a separate room this time?
12:28:26	Yardanico	Araq, dom96 asks you to host his channel - go to https://www.twitch.tv/settings/channel, there's "Host List" - add d0m96 here
12:28:32	PMunch	Not saying that I think we should, but maybe?
12:28:45	Yardanico	PMunch, what about gitter ? :(
12:28:53	arecaceae	does async come with an impl. for subprocesses ? - like I'm trying to run always 5 subprocess at a time from a bigger list of things, so I want to block as long as 5 subprocesses are running but once one finishes I want to start the next one, any pointers?
12:29:07	PMunch	Ah right, we'll miss those..
12:29:15	Yardanico	arecaceae, you can use https://github.com/cheatfate/asynctools
12:29:20	Yardanico	there's asyncproc
12:29:23	dom96	arecaceae: there are a couple async osproc implementations that you can use
12:29:38	dom96	I'm happy to keep the relay in this channel
12:29:41	Yardanico	dom96, , Ideally I would like if we would create a new gitter room and connect it to #nim-offtopic
12:29:51	dom96	Araq: Once you do what Yardanico instructed, make sure to enable "Auto host" as well
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12:30:30	arecaceae	dom96: can recommend any specific one?
12:30:37	arecaceae	Yardanico: thanks
12:30:43	dom96	arecaceae: the one Yardanico linked seems good
12:31:07	arecaceae	dom96: thanks
12:34:25	Yardanico	eh, I think I should start new reddit account :)
12:34:38	Yardanico	because you can't change nickname on reddit
12:34:55	Yardanico	dom96, also can you please change Tiberium to Yardanico on nim forum? if that's possible
12:35:32	dom96	I can, but I have to edit the DB which is a pain :\
12:36:28	Yardanico	dom96, ok, that's really not a problem
12:36:36	Yardanico	I'll change the avatar on gravatar though
12:36:47	couven92	yaih, I'm back! :) Was the stream good yesterday?
12:37:06	Yardanico	couven92, yes, but it was a bit too short :P
12:37:17	Yardanico	couven92, we got 70 upvotes on stream announcement on /r/programming
12:37:27	couven92	nice!
12:37:38	Yardanico	also we got 160 upvotes on araq's blog post on HN
12:37:45	Yardanico	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15512249
12:38:05	arecaceae	dom96: whats your stance on putting something like the asyncproc implementation in the stdlib?
12:39:25	couven92	Oooh... I see it is on YT! :)
12:39:44	dom96	arecaceae: if it's a mature implementation then I'm open to it
12:39:47	Yardanico	couven92, wait, already?
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12:39:55	couven92	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNUDGZuqfQM
12:39:56	Yardanico	I didn't knew that Araq has uploaded it
12:40:02	Yardanico	wow
12:40:12	arecaceae	dom96: I see, thanks
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12:54:21	dom96	hah, somebody submitted the Nim community survey results to Reddit too
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13:02:30	miran	dom96: seems like 'fixing stdlib bugs' is a theme for your today's stream. could you tell us a bit more what can we expect?
13:08:58	zolk3ri	yeah, expect stdlib bugs to be fixed
13:09:02	zolk3ri	:p
13:09:33	zolk3ri	or rather, have no expectations, so you won't feel disappointed when you find that there are no stdlib bugs fixed!
13:10:40	dom96	hehe
13:10:54	zolk3ri	(because there are simply no bugs in the stdlib)
13:11:04	dom96	I'll be looking through the list of bugs tagged "stdlib" and seeing what I can fix.
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13:15:47	miran	just checked 186 of those issues currently :) hopefully after the stream, the number will not go up :D
13:16:35	Yardanico	miran, xd
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13:17:33	Yardanico	dom96, maybe you can also fix documentation bugs :)
13:20:17	miran	Yardanico: are there some "low hanging fruits" in the documentation that a nim beginner could help?
13:20:47	Yardanico	miran, you can check yourself:) https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue%20is%3Aopen%20label%3Adocumentation
13:21:01	Yardanico	for example https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/5914
13:21:22	miran	ok, i'll see what i can do - i would really like to get that hacktoberfest t-shirt :)
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13:23:29	dom96	oh damn, I need to remember to make some more PRs for Hacktoberfest too
13:25:25	Yardanico	dom96, https://github.com/AliceWonderland/hacktoberfest :D
13:25:43	Yardanico	there's a lot of stuff like
13:25:44	Yardanico	https://github.com/Cutwell/Hacktoberfest-Census
13:25:45	Yardanico	https://github.com/Nguyen17/Hacktoberfest-Sign-In
13:26:00	Yardanico	oh wait
13:26:08	Yardanico	You don't need to have a MERGED PR
13:26:14	Yardanico	open PRs count too
13:26:28	dom96	Unfortunately people like that will likely cause them to stop this :(
13:26:32	Yardanico	yeah
13:27:46	miran	PR doesn't have to be merged?! this changes everything!
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13:28:35	Yardanico	miran, https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com/stats/Yardanico
13:28:46	Yardanico	My PRs to songbw/admin-server and nimble aren't merged
13:28:49	Yardanico	but they count too 0_0
13:30:08	dom96	yeah, they don't need to be merged
13:30:51	miran	well i guess this will be a productive weekend for me....
13:33:44	PMunch	Hmm, what's proxyexe.nim?
13:34:01	Yardanico	PMunch, it's a proxy exe for choosenim
13:34:08	Yardanico	choosenim creates "fake" nim binaries
13:34:21	Yardanico	so it intercepts all nim calls and executes needed nim version
13:34:53	PMunch	Hmm
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13:35:28	PMunch	When I try to compile my project it locks up and Ctrl-C shows the trace coming from that file. But I guess that's just because it started the compiler
13:38:21	dom96	hrm, is that just for your project?
13:38:54	dom96	You can try running the compiler directly, it's in ~/.choosenim/toolchains/nim-ver/bin/nim (replace `ver`)
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13:40:54	dom96	(if you run `choosenim show` it will show you the path)
13:41:12	PMunch	Still freezes, but there's no trace this time
13:41:26	PMunch	So it wasn't caused by choosenim at least
13:42:06	Yardanico	Araq, is there any particular reason why renderer doesn't handle unicode?
13:42:17	Yardanico	it's needed for things like this: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/3056
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13:43:04	Yardanico	makeNimString in renderer.nim is responsible for this
13:43:11	Yardanico	but it handles only ASCII chars via toNimChar
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13:43:25	Yardanico	not ASCII chars are embedded into the string as-is
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13:56:58	miran	the thread at HN has just hit 100 comments (and approx. 5 comments about nim :D)
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13:58:23	dom96	I offered to answer questions and not a single question, just nice messages :)
13:59:12	miran	dom96: you offered that several hours too late, when whole thread went in c++ direction and passed the point of no return :)
13:59:28	zolk3ri	eww
14:00:21	dom96	hehe
14:00:22	dom96	true
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14:06:11	Viktor	Hey Guys. I was wondering what's the story behind the Nim logo. "King of the programming languages"?
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14:06:51	PMunch	Nim is named after king Nimrod
14:07:01	PMunch	That's why it has a crown
14:07:20	PMunch	Not entirely sure why it is named after said king though
14:07:28	dom96	Because that was the first king
14:07:41	PMunch	The first?
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14:07:59	Yardanico	PMunch, yes
14:08:16	Yardanico	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimrod
14:08:23	Yardanico	"He was allegedly the first king to wear a crown. "
14:08:38	Yardanico	The Syriac Cave of Treasures (ca. 350) contains an account of Nimrod very similar to that in the Kitab al-Magall, except that Nisibis, Edessa and Harran are said to be built by Nimrod when Reu was 50, and that he began his reign as the first king when Reu was 130.
14:09:04	Viktor	alright, good to know!
14:09:12	Yardanico	Viktor, I think it's a good logo :P
14:09:37	dom96	Something to add to our FAQ
14:09:43	Viktor	Yes , it is true, I was just wondering what it means, but now I know. :)
14:09:55	Yardanico	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimrod
14:10:01	PMunch	However: Attempts to match Nimrod with historically attested figures have failed.
14:10:10	Yardanico	yes
14:10:26	federico3	therefore a repository of Nimble packages should be called "The Syriac Cave of Treasures"
14:10:45	PMunch	A bit long though..
14:11:19	PMunch	Oh wait
14:11:29	PMunch	Never mind
14:11:31	PMunch	I'm tired
14:11:34	PMunch	Time to head home
14:11:51	PMunch	https://github.com/PMunch/genui/blob/master/examples/test2.nim#L50
14:12:05	PMunch	Anyone knows why that would make the compiler spin infinitely by the way?
14:12:23	dom96	federico3: awesome idea :)
14:12:29	PMunch	https://github.com/PMunch/genui/blob/master/genui/widgets.nim#L54
14:12:34	PMunch	Defined there
14:13:05	PMunch	It's not really doing much more than storing a proc in a table, yet it just fails to do anything. Not ever the echo statement is executed
14:13:24	dom96	might want to grab a debug Nim compiler and see what happens with that
14:14:24	crem	Is there any SDL-based ui library for nim? Or native ui library, but should work under win,linux and macos. Or html renderer is also fine. :)
14:14:33	Yardanico	crem, yep
14:14:46	crem	Which of three is yep?
14:14:47	Yardanico	crem, best one - https://github.com/yglukhov/nimx
14:15:04	Yardanico	sdl, but it aims to have native UIs in the future
14:15:13	Yardanico	support win, linux, macos, webgl, android, ios
14:15:19	Yardanico	*supports
14:18:03	PMunch	dom96, yeah I'll look into that when I get home. Does choosenim have a debug option?
14:18:04	crem	Hm.. actually maybe native is not that good for my use case. I'm planning to redo a client for games database site.. Similar to itch.io app (or steam app). itch.io has it in node/electron. I hate javascript, but still seems to be the most viable option.
14:18:13	dom96	PMunch: afraid not
14:18:48	Yardanico	crem, SDL is a lot better than electron though
14:18:54	Yardanico	crem, I mean performance-wise
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14:19:38	crem	What about development velocity-wise?
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14:20:00	Yardanico	crem, there are electron bindings for nim
14:20:09	Yardanico	https://github.com/PMunch/nim-electron
14:20:11	crem	Hm.
14:20:31	Yardanico	but it's mostly a PoC I think
14:20:41	Yardanico	you can ask PMunch about it though
14:21:57	crem	nim+electros is too much to learn at once. What about UI libs on top of SDL, are there?
14:22:08	Yardanico	crem, NimX as I said
14:22:22	Yardanico	It's built on top of SDL
14:22:26	Yardanico	https://github.com/yglukhov/nimx
14:22:29	crem	ah, ok.
14:23:00	Yardanico	crem, Nimx officially supports Linux, MacOS, Windows, Android, iOS, Javascript (with Nim JS backend) and Asm.js (with Nim C backend and Emscripten).
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14:25:54	zolk3ri	Yardanico: oh nice to hear about it
14:27:10	Yardanico	If anyone missed: dom96 is streaming at 16:00 UTC (4 PM)
14:27:13	Yardanico	1.5 hours from now!
14:27:26	zolk3ri	18+?
14:27:36	Yardanico	zolk3ri, I don't think so xD
14:27:44	Yardanico	it's 0+
14:27:44	zolk3ri	shiet
14:27:46	zolk3ri	:p
14:27:51	Yardanico	zolk3ri, how old are u ?
14:27:55	zolk3ri	23
14:28:05	Yardanico	dom96, almost 60 votes on strawpoll
14:29:36	zolk3ri	Yardanico: what's that "FPS: 1"? xD
14:29:47	Yardanico	zolk3ri, it's actually very good
14:29:56	Yardanico	it means that GUI doesn't update if there's no events
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14:30:03	Yardanico	that means that CPU and GPU aren't wasted
14:30:08	zolk3ri	ah right
14:30:21	Yardanico	there's webgl demo: http://yglukhov.github.io/nimx/livedemo/main.html
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14:31:11	dom96	Yardanico: yay, nice
14:31:29	Yardanico	zolk3ri, pure-nim, as you can see: http://yglukhov.github.io/nimx/livedemo/main.js
14:31:52	zolk3ri	Yardanico: yeah I think I will use this, my friend wanted me to write an app for Tesco that he could use on his phone, and if I write it, it will become popular in poland tescos!
14:33:04	Yardanico	dom96, nim community seems to be very hard-core :P
14:33:07	Yardanico	only low-level(ish) stuff
14:33:16	Yardanico	stdlib/compiler/destructors
14:33:37	dom96	zolk3ri: ooh, what's the app?
14:33:44	dom96	(or is top secret? :))
14:34:26	dom96	*is it
14:36:37	zolk3ri	dom96: it's really easy, just need a properly designed UI to find products and their EAN-13... and possibly even generate it, it should prioritize frequently viewed products and whatnot, have a photo gallery, etc. I will have to fetch the products from ezakupy.tesco.pl before though :P
14:36:47	zolk3ri	what they currently have is apparently a nightmare
14:37:03	zolk3ri	and takes lots of time to navigate through, and buggy
14:37:55	dom96	Cool. Will it work with the UK tesco? :)
14:38:17	zolk3ri	possibly :P
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14:52:50	Araq	has dom96 started already?
14:53:04	Yardanico	Araq, no
14:53:12	dom96	in a little over an hour
14:53:22	Yardanico	Araq, yeah, he'll fix stdlib bugs :P
14:53:30	Araq	er huh? shouldn't it be in 7 minutes?
14:53:33	Yardanico	Araq, http://www.strawpoll.me/14185591
14:53:36	Yardanico	Araq, no
14:53:38	Yardanico	16:00 UTC
14:53:47	Yardanico	4pm
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14:57:40	dom96	Araq: Did you set up auto hosting?
14:58:18	Araq	what's that?
14:58:41	*	zolk3ri quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
14:58:54	dom96	When I go live and you're not live then your channel will automatically host my livestream
14:59:00	dom96	I set it up for your channel on mine
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15:00:00	Yardanico	Araq, go to https://www.twitch.tv/settings/channel, there's "Host List" - add d0m96 here and enable "Auto host"
15:00:32	zolk3ri	when it begins, can I have a link so I can watch? :P
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15:01:02	Yardanico	zolk3ri, https://go.twitch.tv/d0m96
15:01:06	Araq	Yardanico, ok thanks
15:01:07	gokr	Hum, gitter all quiet. But here its a party.
15:01:10	zolk3ri	thanks
15:01:25	Araq	gokr, uh oh, did the bridge die?
15:01:34	gokr	It must have.
15:01:37	Yardanico	yeah
15:01:46	dom96	oprypin: bridge seems to be dead
15:02:01	Yardanico	* FromGitter has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) it happened 15:08 my time, 12:08 UTC
15:02:07	Yardanico	lol
15:02:17	dom96	:\
15:02:19	zolk3ri	oh
15:02:32	*	miran joined #nim
15:02:50	gokr	But it can't be written in Nim then, right? :)
15:03:35	dom96	indeed
15:03:39	dom96	Time to rewrite in Nim
15:03:47	zolk3ri	it should be easy!
15:04:07	Yardanico	if gitter has an API - yes
15:04:16	dom96	Just port oprypin's code
15:04:17	Yardanico	https://developer.gitter.im/docs/welcome
15:04:19	dom96	Should be trivial
15:04:22	Yardanico	dom96, ?
15:04:47	dom96	https://github.com/oprypin/critter
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15:08:31	gokr	PMunch: About genui and DSL for UIs, did you look at Red? Since they are all about DSLs, might have some good input. Also, how does genui relate to Nimui?
15:08:33	livcd	fromgitter is in which language ?
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15:08:44	Yardanico	livcd, crystal
15:09:33	Yardanico	probably I would port it to Nim :P
15:09:47	livcd	awww lets not bash crystal :P
15:09:52	gokr	PMunch: I mean... not Nimui, Nigui
15:10:00	Yardanico	livcd, nah!
15:10:06	Yardanico	we need our own critter
15:10:10	Yardanico	"girelay"
15:10:24	Yardanico	G(it)I(RC)relay
15:10:29	Yardanico	G(itter)I(RC)relay
15:10:32	livcd	call it
15:10:34	livcd	Nimoy
15:10:36	Yardanico	LOL
15:10:43	Yardanico	do you know what does it mean in russian?
15:11:02	livcd	nope but i was referring to leonard nimoy
15:11:02	livcd	heh
15:11:09	PMunch	gokr, Yeah I did have a look at red a while back
15:11:23	Yardanico	"nimoy" is like "nemoy", it means "voiceless"
15:11:27	Yardanico	"немой"
15:11:28	PMunch	Might have too look at it more closely
15:11:48	*	Ven_ quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
15:11:58	Yardanico	or it means "mute"
15:12:08	livcd	Yardanico: ah i am a slavic speaker myself but i would not make that connection
15:12:09	livcd	:)
15:12:13	Yardanico	livcd, well why? : )
15:12:23	gokr	PMunch: I only know Red ... from perusing Rebol/Red as inspiration for Spry in some areas. Some stuff in there looks darn nice at least.
15:12:37	Yardanico	livcd, and believe it or not
15:12:39	Yardanico	livcd, https://github.com/evacchi/nimoy
15:12:49	livcd	Yardanico: i guess because the root of the word would be for me "NEM" :D
15:13:38	miran	"nemoj" in croatian would mean "don't"
15:13:38	zolk3ri	Yardanico: I bet you are coding in nim wearing full adidas tracksuit, aren't you?!
15:13:50	Yardanico	zolk3ri, xd
15:14:07	Yardanico	zolk3ri, I'm not a gopnik
15:14:30	zolk3ri	:P
15:14:36	Yardanico	LOL, there's a wiki page
15:14:37	Yardanico	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopnik
15:15:25	livcd	zolk3ri: yes and just like perelman he would refuse a 1m$ because he understands the universe :P
15:15:32	PMunch	And how do they relate is a bit involved. I first created a macro for wxnim called genui. It had a simple DSL for creating wxWidgets Nim code. Then I figured that wxWidgets was a bit clumsy to use for Linux only applications and I made genui for Gtk2 and Gtk3. Then NiGui appeared and I decided that I wanted to try and get first-class support for genui into it as it wasn't always that easy to create the DSL after the fact. Through doing all this I kept thinking
15:15:32	PMunch	that maybe there's another way and that's what I'm trying to achieve with the currently (and very confusingly named) genui project. It will focus on creating native GUI code with very little abstraction so that you can still implement special features in platform specific code if you want to. All this of course while focusing on having a good clean DSL.
15:15:46	PMunch	Whoops, didn't realise how much I typed..
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15:32:25	gokr	PMunch: :)
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15:35:46	Araq	PMunch, want some DSL advice?
15:35:54	PMunch	Always :)
15:36:25	Araq	uses karax's DLS :-)
15:36:33	Araq	*DSL
15:36:46	Araq	what's wrong with it? I spent some time designing it
15:37:14	Araq	it's really a DSL for tree construction and UIs are widget trees, so to speak
15:37:24	PMunch	Hmm, good point
15:37:32	PMunch	The Karax DSL is pretty good
15:38:16	gokr	Several cross platform abstractions in the Smalltalk community has used an "internal" tree representation, and then used platform specific "builders" that take that tree as input.
15:38:38	PMunch	And I do wonder how you do the mix between your widgets and Nim code
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15:39:57	Araq	it's called "fairy dust"
15:40:43	PMunch	That's what I feared :P
15:40:56	PMunch	At least it's not Vodoo
15:41:06	PMunch	Voodoo*
15:41:39	Araq	well I got a PR fixing a bug in it so that's proof others can understand it
15:42:39	PMunch	Haha, good point
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15:49:21	couven92	how far along is parallel testament?
15:49:50	Yardanico	Araq, yeah, add parallel testament to your next topic list
15:49:59	Arrrr	What do you think https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/77ko76/nim_pointer_free_programming/domzpon/
15:50:20	Yardanico	rust is even harder at this lol
15:50:44	couven92	Yardanico, I actually have a quite substatial PR for testament coming up... I am considering of just doing parallel testament
15:51:20	Yardanico	couven92, there's already a PR for parallel testament
15:51:29	Arrrr	i guess we always have crystal for GC
15:51:31	couven92	Yeah, I know...
15:51:31	Araq	couven92, oh yeah thanks for reminding me
15:51:32	zolk3ri	rust is way more difficult, I agree
15:51:46	zolk3ri	but calling nim difficult? I don't know...
15:52:05	dom96	I actually agree with shevegen's point.
15:52:27	dom96	My main opposition to Araq's plan is that Nim may become more difficult.
15:52:40	zolk3ri	yeah, I'm not up to date with these plans anyway
15:52:41	couven92	Araq, yeah but my PR is still waiting for me to do the HTML output using templates as dom96 suggested... it's in my backlog, I just haven't gotten around to doing that... I was planning on doing that now...
15:53:07	livcd	dom96: i agree and disagree at the same time
15:53:26	Araq	couven92, go ahead and do not wait for parallel testament
15:53:45	couven92	maybe do parallel testament afterwards! :P
15:53:48	couven92	?
15:53:50	Araq	that other PR uses the wrong solution
15:53:54	Araq	(sorry!)
15:54:05	dom96	https://go.twitch.tv/d0m96
15:54:07	couven92	yeah, I also had something else in mind
15:54:07	Araq	it's much easier to parallelize testament anyway
15:54:08	dom96	Stream is starting soon
15:54:25	Araq	except it's blocked by a bug in osproc that I need to fix first
15:54:35	Yardanico	dom96, dat chat
15:54:37	Yardanico	:D
15:54:47	dom96	Beautiful am I right?
15:54:53	Yardanico	yeah,
15:55:59	couven92	Araq, I was thinking of doing a lock on the output json file by just doing a line append. then the parallel SQL acces won't be an issue anymore, and then we'd rid ourselves from the SQLite DB
15:56:24	Araq	just remove the Sqlite code already, it's not hard
15:56:34	couven92	Yeah will do
15:56:38	dom96	weird that the view counter is at 0
15:56:41	couven92	:) templates first though
15:56:51	dom96	and just as I say it, it changes :)
15:57:01	couven92	dom96, in my window it says 325
15:57:23	dom96	That's past viewers I guess?
15:57:32	couven92	ah, sorry that was the total view count
15:57:45	livcd	i see 4 viewers
15:58:05	federico3	perhaps the time of the day is not ideal?
15:58:24	livcd	it's still US business hours no ?
15:58:24	dom96	oh? Why not?
15:58:45	dom96	oh well, too late to change now :)
15:58:49	livcd	ah yeah
15:58:55	livcd	it's too early for US
15:59:29	couven92	dom96, yeah, we know that you're based in the UK, we can deal, always possible to rewatch on YT later
15:59:42	Yardanico	my time is already 17:00
15:59:53	Yardanico	sorry
15:59:54	Yardanico	19:00
15:59:57	Arrrr	lol
16:00:09	FromTwitch	<couven92> here it's 18:00
16:00:11	FromTwitch	<couven92> :)
16:00:13	livcd	you thought 7 pm right ? :)
16:00:24	Yardanico	european part of russia
16:00:32	FromTwitch	<araq4k> it is
16:02:05	FromTwitch	<araq4k> can I send some issues here?
16:03:11	FromTwitch	<araq4k> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/782
16:03:37	FromTwitch	<araq4k> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/4405
16:03:58	FromTwitch	<araq4k> ok, sorry
16:04:21	FromTwitch	<araq4k> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/6386
16:05:00	FromTwitch	<araq4k> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/6514
16:06:00	FromTwitch	<araq4k> +1
16:07:08	FromTwitch	<araq4k> keep in mind the tester uses re.nim, so you probably need to update it too
16:07:10	miran	dom96: zoom in please (Ctrl+=), my traditional request
16:07:33	FromTwitch	<araq4k> what 're' uses + reExtended
16:07:41	miran	much better, thanks!
16:08:32	FromTwitch	<araq4k> I misunderstood your question then
16:08:37	FromTwitch	<araq4k> yes!
16:08:40	*	claudiuinberlin joined #nim
16:08:54	FromTwitch	<araq4k> yes
16:10:00	FromTwitch	<araq4k> result = re(s, flags) # implementation
16:11:04	FromTwitch	<araq4k> keep in mind the tester uses re.nim , so you probably need to update it too
16:11:09	*	zenAudio quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
16:11:25	couven92	Araq, why do you like the explicit result-assignment better? Just curious (I have no real preference)
16:12:00	FromTwitch	<araq4k> @couven92 lag here, I proposed this code before he typed it
16:12:10	couven92	ah?
16:12:14	couven92	I see :)
16:12:26	*	claudiuinberlin quit (Client Quit)
16:13:25	FromTwitch	<araq4k> ok, never mind, the tester is ok
16:13:32	livcd	araq4k: but you still prefer your way no ?
16:13:52	couven92	Yardanico, because of your bridge, I can log out of the Twitch IRC, right?
16:14:39	couven92	because I'm annoyingly getting highlighted there all the time :P
16:15:07	couven92	dom96, yeah he answered the question
16:15:28	FromTwitch	<araq4k> @livcd: not sure, 'result' predates implicit returns and my style hasn't kept up
16:15:30	Viktor	does anyone know if the postgres module is supporting JSON fields in query response?
16:15:36	PMunch	couven92, yeah you can only be in this room if you like :)
16:16:10	couven92	yaih
16:16:22	*	kafke quit ()
16:16:42	dandevelo	Is there any way to detect a value is not part of an enum?
16:17:23	FromTwitch	<araq4k> @viktor: the db_postgre module supports every datatype but returns it as string
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16:18:08	federico3	that's really unexpected tho
16:18:20	couven92	dom96, only react to the stuff where you get highlighted so that you can concentrate on the stream
16:18:24	federico3	dom96: I am
16:18:27	Viktor	hmm ok, so I will have to manually convert it, ok!
16:18:35	*	derlafff quit (Remote host closed the connection)
16:18:47	FromTwitch	<araq4k> shouldn't it raise an OS error?
16:19:15	federico3	dom96: say you want to expand `~`, log out what you get and then go and create a file
16:19:29	federico3	that's a pretty typical usecase
16:19:33	couven92	dandevelo, you can easily find out by assigning it to an enum variable
16:20:09	dandevelo	couven92 how would the check look like?
16:20:51	federico3	dom96: nah you are expanding "../myconfigfile.json" or "~/conf.json"
16:21:05	*	Arrrr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
16:21:38	FromTwitch	<yardanico> I'm finally here
16:22:21	couven92	dandevelo: https://gist.github.com/53539056cc3a02eaca4086c644ca14af
16:22:32	FromTwitch	<yardanico> LOL
16:22:34	FromTwitch	<yardanico> Aporia!?
16:23:16	couven92	dom96, you can run F5 in vscode
16:23:32	FromTwitch	<yardanico> F6
16:23:43	FromTwitch	<yardanico> @d0m96 you can use F6 to compile & run current nim file in vscode btw
16:23:52	couven92	(you just have to create a launch.json and set the file to execute to ${file})
16:24:06	FromTwitch	<yardanico> you don't need to edit launch.json
16:24:12	FromTwitch	<yardanico> it works without it
16:24:27	dandevelo	couven92: agree that blows up but how do you detect that in order to report it back to another function?
16:24:32	FromTwitch	<yardanico> I use F6 0_0
16:24:54	couven92	dom96, yes
16:25:07	couven92	dandevelo, try, catch block
16:25:29	*	Viktor quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
16:25:46	FromTwitch	<araq4k> dom96: I agree, that file "save as " dialog is super annoying, stupid osx
16:25:49	miran	can't you just run it with ctrl+alt+n? (if you have code runner plugin)
16:25:53	couven92	dom96, I'll do a feature request for that in the vscode nim extension
16:26:26	FromTwitch	<manterolat> You might need to tell VSCode it's a Nim file, rather than Plain Text (bottom right)?
16:26:28	couven92	the Python extension does that, I agree it would be nice to have for Nim
16:26:33	zolk3ri	dom96: just use emacs or vim
16:26:35	zolk3ri	:P
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16:27:49	livcd	guys dont make him context switch too much
16:28:19	dandevelo	couven92: try, catch block does not seem to work
16:28:41	couven92	dandevelo, I am sorry? You want to not blow up? You know assigning two toally disperate types won't and SHOULD never work!
16:29:01	couven92	numeric and enum types are totally disperate!
16:29:47	dandevelo	couven92: just saying that try except does not have any effect
16:29:54	dandevelo	except never gets called
16:30:08	*	FromGitter joined #nim
16:30:15	FromTwitch	<pyloor> in vscode open new file (Untitled-1), paste your code, switch to "Nim" on bottom right and then press F6. Works for me. It creates a /tmp/vscodenimdirty.nim file and then compile+runs it.
16:30:16	couven92	yeah I know, it does not compile
16:30:42	couven92	dandevelo: ^
16:31:09	FromTwitch	<yardanico> she wants to learn nim
16:31:30	couven92	:D
16:31:43	FromTwitch	<araq4k> no
16:31:49	FromTwitch	<yardanico> use dirty one
16:31:50	FromGitter	<mratsim> @Yardanico, did you workaround the Gitter<->IRC issue with your twitch bot? it’s really weird on Gitter
16:32:01	Yardanico	what do you mean?
16:32:22	darkn0de	$150 bounty posted on https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/782
16:32:27	FromGitter	<mratsim> ah no, we just get “fromTwitch"
16:32:37	gokr	dandevelo: You need to distinguish between compilation error and runtime exceptions.
16:32:47	couven92	Araq, can you explain what immediate and dirty do?
16:32:49	couven92	:O
16:33:14	Araq	couven92, not now.
16:33:27	couven92	okay, I'll look it up later
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16:34:32	zolk3ri	which issue is he trying to fix?
16:35:09	zolk3ri	thanks!
16:35:19	darkn0de	zolk3ri, what do you mean. I think both cert and name verifications
16:35:43	zolk3ri	darkn0de: meant this: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/6386
16:35:48	FromTwitch	<yardanico> he's talking with dom96 on stream :)
16:35:49	darkn0de	I think CN verifications might already be in there (probably need tests)
16:35:55	Yardanico	darkn0de, https://go.twitch.tv/d0m96
16:35:58	darkn0de	zolk3ri, ah :) sorry
16:36:03	couven92	zolk3ri, https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/6386
16:36:54	darkn0de	Yardanico, thank you!
16:37:04	FromGitter	<Yardanico> @mratsim well I can't fix now until I'll create Gitter-IRC-Twitch bridge myself :P
16:37:12	couven92	dom96, you want to do whatever the client wants you to do, meaning evaluate the Connection request header
16:37:41	FromGitter	<mratsim> I think that should be tagged RFC: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/6538
16:37:52	Yardanico	one sec
16:38:06	Yardanico	but we all know what would happen to that issue :P
16:38:14	dandevelo	@gokr: maybe this link gives you an idea on what I am trying to accomplish: https://www.pastiebin.com/59ea264f91fa1
16:38:18	FromGitter	<mratsim> :D
16:38:59	couven92	dom96, yes you're right HTTP 1.1 is keep-alive by default when the COnnection header is missing
16:39:25	miran	Yardanico: can you put 'bounty' label on #782?
16:39:36	federico3	dom96: netcat is your friend
16:39:40	Yardanico	miran, yep
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16:39:59	couven92	dom96, google closed the connection because it did not encounter an HTTP version
16:40:18	couven92	so try google with an invalid ULR
16:40:18	dandevelo	couven92 is this what you had in mind with the try/except? https://www.pastiebin.com/59ea264f91fa1
16:40:59	FromTwitch	<araq4k> btw I'm away
16:41:25	couven92	dandevelo, ah! You want to parse a string into an enum?
16:41:32	couven92	or rather tryParse?
16:41:51	Yardanico	enum to string it seems
16:42:34	FromGitter	<mratsim> @dandevelo, wow you’ve been on this for 4 hours? Shouldn’t this be a runtime exception: https://play.nim-lang.org/?gist=1a4ab384324fcadcdcd1d946f158a23c
16:42:41	Yardanico	it is
16:42:44	Yardanico	only in debug mode
16:42:49	Yardanico	in release it would pass
16:43:41	Yardanico	and result would contain !(invalid data)
16:43:45	Yardanico	e.g. invalid enum value
16:43:48	darkn0de	Miran, Yardanico looks complex
16:44:11	*	SunDwarf is now known as abc
16:44:13	*	abc is now known as SunDwarf
16:44:19	dandevelo	Yep, that is the output: 3 (invalid data!)
16:44:25	couven92	dom96 teaching HTTP at UiT
16:44:31	couven92	for the last three years
16:44:34	couven92	:P
16:45:07	dandevelo	couvent92: more like...trying to see if an uint32 value is part of an enum
16:45:12	FromTwitch	<lorymaster> Just so you know, every browser does whatever it wants in response to http messages, so it probably is not that big of a deal if you do whatever you want
16:45:14	Arrrr	you can do this: Create a const set with every value in your enum then check with "is v in set"
16:45:19	federico3	why closing the connection tho?
16:45:37	couven92	Yes dom96! Always keep-alive by default (unless 500 status code)
16:45:54	Yardanico	maybe we should add "contains" for enums?
16:46:09	Yardanico	and make it a compiler magic :P
16:46:15	couven92	the reason why google closed the connection was that you did not do an HTTP reuqest at all!
16:46:19	federico3	most servers and client have been ignoring HTTP RFCs and keeping connection opens more aggressively
16:46:37	dandevelo	Yardanico: that would be great :)
16:46:37	couven92	try Google with a syntactically correct but invalid request for example
16:46:50	Arrrr	mm no it doesn't work ...
16:46:58	Arrrr	YEs, there should be a contains for enums, and len too
16:47:12	federico3	dom96: BTW telnet injects extra character while netcat does not
16:47:33	PMunch	From RFC 2616: "A significant difference between HTTP/1.1 and earlier versions of HTTP is that persistent connections are the default behavior of any HTTP connection. That is, unless otherwise indicated, the client SHOULD assume that the server will maintain a persistent connection, even after error responses from the server."
16:47:44	PMunch	So basically it should persist if it is able to
16:47:55	PMunch	Obviously if the server crashes there isn't much to be done
16:47:56	zolk3ri	if the "Connection" is close, then you close, and if it's keep-alive, you don't, and HTTP/1.1 defaults to persistent connections, allowing multiple requests and responses to be carried over a single connection
16:48:09	zolk3ri	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7230#section-6.3
16:48:17	zolk3ri	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7230#page-79
16:48:30	FromTwitch	<yardanico> maybe we need to change the title to "fixing asynchttpserver bugs" ? :)
16:49:03	couven92	PMunch, yes I didn't feel for quoting, but that was exactly the text that went through my head :P
16:49:10	FromTwitch	<yardanico> @d0m96 why you don't have an extension for indentation lines?
16:49:40	*	bkerin joined #nim
16:49:42	FromTwitch	<yardanico> to show indent levels
16:50:01	couven92	years of teaching INF2301 have caused me to basically memorize the HTTP RFC :P
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16:51:51	dandevelo	@mratsim: yep, after 4 hours it looks like the answer is: not possible yet
16:52:32	miran	Yardanico: you don't need extension for that, just enable it in vscode options
16:52:40	Yardanico	miran, yeah I actually know
16:52:45	Yardanico	I forgot it's a vscode feature :P
16:52:51	PMunch	couven92, I just have mad Google-fu :P
16:54:17	FromTwitch	<meebhus> hi! what language are we working with?
16:54:32	Yardanico	meebhus: Nim
16:54:40	Yardanico	https://nim-lang.org
16:55:10	FromTwitch	<meebhus> thanks 
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16:55:40	couven92	dom96, you SHOULD evaluate the "Connection" Request header!!!!
16:55:51	couven92	to decide whether to close or not!!
16:56:08	zolk3ri	yeah, and if it's not present, default to keep-alive if it's HTTP/1.1
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16:57:04	couven92	very good dom96! I am appeased! :)
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16:58:20	federico3	we need a confcall instead of twitch
16:58:44	Yardanico	skype?
16:58:48	Yardanico	discord?
16:58:53	federico3	mumble?
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17:03:15	FromTwitch	<yardanico> oh wait
17:03:25	FromTwitch	<yardanico> c-c-c-converter in stdlib ?! :)
17:04:44	federico3	we don't
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17:10:31	kobi7	hi
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17:13:56	FromTwitch	<yardanico> @d0m96 you already use waitFor here
17:14:01	FromTwitch	<yardanico> yeah
17:14:21	FromTwitch	<yardanico> resp.body needs to be awaited (or waitFor'ed) too
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17:16:56	kobi7	Hi Yardanico
17:17:00	Yardanico	kobi7, hi
17:17:50	kobi7	I am not sure how it works, as I haven't done much low level coding:
17:18:19	kobi7	I wonder if I can get the memory bytes of a variable holding some object.
17:18:48	kobi7	most of my experience is with c#
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17:19:06	Yardanico	kobi7, you can do that
17:19:32	kobi7	for example, for deep clone, or deep equal. instead of using reflection, I want to get the bytes, then sort of cast them to that type
17:19:57	Yardanico	kobi7, you don't need bytes for that
17:20:10	Yardanico	let mynewobj = cast[MyNewObject](myoldobjectvar)
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17:20:34	Yardanico	kobi7, for equal you can just overwrite ==
17:20:34	kobi7	but that just changes the reference type
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17:21:30	Yardanico	kobi7, so why would you need to get raw object bytes?
17:22:15	kobi7	actually my thinking is wrong, as I'd need new variables to point to that copied data
17:22:33	kobi7	an object with complex fields inside, clone it fully.
17:22:52	Yardanico	nim already has value semantics for simple objects
17:23:11	Yardanico	if you have ref object, you can access its' object like that "myvar[]"
17:24:14	kobi7	myvar[] ?
17:24:33	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> the only issue I have is that it's not done in go
17:24:40	Yardanico	yes, you would dereference your reference with that
17:24:49	Yardanico	so you would access it's data
17:25:08	kobi7	I see.
17:25:31	kobi7	but the variables it has inside it, would still be ref objects
17:25:48	kobi7	and I'd need to mimic the structure. so again working recursively ...
17:25:51	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> because go rules and other languages drool
17:25:59	kobi7	in c# it'd be done with reflection but that is really awful to do
17:25:59	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> and it's easy to read
17:26:20	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> see, it's infallible logic
17:26:31	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> you can't argue with it
17:27:22	Yardanico	well nim is faster than go :)
17:27:47	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> premature performance optimization is the root of all evil
17:27:48	FromTwitch	<boys_in_the_hod> what are you programming?
17:28:09	Yardanico	bad_hombres: and nim is compiled to efficient native binaries
17:28:34	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> same with go
17:28:50	kobi7	we congratulate you, and hope to cooperate by porting go libs to nim :)
17:28:57	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> I'm also just a huge shit talker
17:29:09	federico3	this is really off topic to the streaming and not productive
17:29:12	Yardanico	bad_hombres: let's not go into offtopic too much
17:29:13	kobi7	there is no competition here
17:29:14	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> ppsshhh generics
17:29:24	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> who needs them
17:29:35	zolk3ri	lol go
17:29:44	kobi7	oh, am i disturbing some twitch time?
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17:30:17	kobi7	federico3: where can I watch the streaming?
17:30:27	federico3	kobi7: https://go.twitch.tv/d0m96
17:30:29	FromTwitch	<boys_in_the_hod> what is in your opinion the easiest language to learn for beginners?
17:30:39	Yardanico	python
17:30:43	kobi7	ah, sorry didn't know
17:30:47	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> I'm serious here, I actually hate exceptions
17:31:00	FromTwitch	<yardanico> @bad_hombres we all already know that you're just a troll :P
17:31:02	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> it's just a frustrating thing for me, I don't like try/catch
17:31:40	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> and then you have to wrap the code in a try catch and that indents your code more
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17:32:02	FromTwitch	<yardanico> and with go you need to have a shit-ton of these ugly if data, ok = ...
17:32:22	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> yeah I don't have an issue with that
17:32:27	zolk3ri	19:30:39 < Yardanico> python
17:32:29	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> not saying exceptions are wrong
17:32:30	zolk3ri	not anymore, it's nim
17:32:31	zolk3ri	shh
17:32:32	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> just that I don't like it
17:32:43	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> entirely subjective
17:32:47	kobi7	improve error messages?
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17:32:49	FromTwitch	<yardanico> @bad_hombres well this stream is about nim :)
17:33:01	miran	zolk3ri: let's not exaggerate that much ;)
17:33:26	zolk3ri	well, I wouldn't want anyone to start with python, tbh
17:33:32	zolk3ri	start with C :p
17:33:47	Yardanico	I've started with python
17:33:50	Arrrr	start with the geeks
17:33:51	Yardanico	after that nim
17:34:05	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> just start programming
17:34:17	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> once you learn a few languages its easy to pick up another
17:34:25	zolk3ri	I've started working on an ioquake3 game, that's how I got into programming
17:34:42	miran	zolk3ri: why don't you think people should start with python? what has changed?
17:34:50	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> all languages are hard with little experience
17:35:14	FromGitter	<mratsim> @dandevelo use tables it will work, they have the `contains`or `haskey` procs
17:35:17	couven92	dom96, review https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/6051
17:35:20	zolk3ri	bad_hombres, well, depends... even if you know C, Haskell might not seem too intuitive :P
17:35:20	couven92	:P
17:36:05	zolk3ri	miran: Oh they can start with any language they would like, I don't mind :) Personally I just dislike Python.
17:36:23	miran	zolk3ri: ok, but why do you dislike it?
17:36:29	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> of course there are exceptions, it's more of a general statement
17:37:07	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> I guess I should have wrapped my previous statement in a try/catch
17:37:16	Arrrr	lol
17:37:34	FromTwitch	<yardanico> @bad_hombres one gott thing with try/except: you don't have to wrap EVERY call which can throw an error into a try/catch
17:37:56	FromTwitch	<yardanico> *good
17:39:16	couven92	that one was SIMPLE! :)
17:39:48	bkerin	everyone should start with C
17:39:50	FromTwitch	<yardanico> @d0m96 there's already a PR to fix that
17:39:56	FromTwitch	<yardanico> @d0m96 check the issue again
17:39:58	bkerin	then they actually know what other languages are doing
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17:40:15	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> bkerin by that logic, everyone should start with assembly
17:40:16	FromGitter	<mratsim> everyone should start with Haskell @bkering ;)
17:40:20	bkerin	nah
17:40:21	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> then they'll know what C is doing
17:40:22	zolk3ri	miran: performance, dynamic typing, indentation significant syntax, too many ways supported to do a thing, but i gotta run brb
17:40:29	bkerin	C is close enough to assembly its easy to see the map
17:40:46	bkerin	should know what assembly is and look at once but no need to program in
17:41:08	FromGitter	<RSDuck> I think it depends on what you want to do
17:41:21	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> i don't think everyone needs to know what assembly is doing
17:41:28	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> there are just so many layers these days
17:41:33	FromTwitch	<bad_hombres> front end devs for example
17:42:59	FromTwitch	<yardanico> @d0m96 maybe you've pasted these lines and client sent them one-by-one?
17:43:17	FromTwitch	<yardanico> ok
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17:43:54	bkerin	well I started with eiffel first weirdly, and thinking objects were magic was bad overall I think
17:45:30	couven92	Araq, Yardanico maybe open and reserve #nim-stream for streams in the future?
17:45:38	Yardanico	couven92, yeah I was talking about that too
17:45:43	Yardanico	but gitter is a problem
17:46:04	couven92	dom96, there is no RFC limit on Content-Length
17:46:26	couven92	because that is ALWAYS very specific to your sever and application!
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17:46:48	FromTwitch	<yardanico> default limit for PHP is 8388608
17:47:04	FromTwitch	<yardanico> it can be more though
17:47:48	couven92	also be careful! I can put non-numeric or larger than 64-bit int values into Content-Length!
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17:49:44	FromTwitch	<yardanico> @d0m96 probably we would need to split processRequest into separate procs/templates so one proc will parse http version, other one will parse path etc...
17:49:50	FromTwitch	<yardanico> because it's TOO large
17:49:59	FromTwitch	<yardanico> like god methods in java
17:50:08	FromTwitch	<yardanico> or in every other language
17:50:26	FromTwitch	<yardanico> @d0m96 use templates :P
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17:52:25	FromTwitch	<yardanico> @d0m96 try it with very big int
17:52:29	FromTwitch	<yardanico> @d0m96 like 121929512951929512951929512951925912
17:52:32	FromTwitch	<yardanico> would it still error?
17:53:15	FromTwitch	<yardanico> xD
17:53:31	oprypin	Yardanico, gitter is a problem only from having two bots going at once, the messages going there from twitch look atrocious with the double prefix
17:53:44	oprypin	but if u want another bridge pair, that's very easy
17:54:01	Yardanico	oprypin, I've added a special case for FromGitter on Twitch btw
17:54:22	Yardanico	oprypin, yeah, can you please also forward all gitter messages to #nim-stream ? :)
17:54:53	oprypin	wait how does that work, wouldn't you need a separate gitter room as well?
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17:55:46	oprypin	you'd get out of context messages all the time
17:55:50	Yardanico	oprypin, well yeah we need to ask dom96
17:56:04	FromTwitch	<yardanico> @d0m96 can you please create another room in nim-lang gitter?
17:56:06	FromTwitch	<yardanico> for streams
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17:57:51	FromTwitch	<yardanico> mget
17:58:04	oprypin	yardanico, is twitch just IRC or what
17:58:11	Yardanico	oprypin, just irc
17:58:17	Yardanico	oprypin, https://github.com/Yardanico/twitchrelay
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18:22:23	couven92	I cannot export procs in a templ file?
18:23:13	couven92	why does nim say: "testamenthtml.templ(13, 25) Error: 'export' is only allowed at top level" :(
18:23:28	Yardanico	couven92, :(
18:24:03	Yardanico	and I'm making gitter-irc bridge in nim :P
18:24:20	Yardanico	thankfully gitter has a very nice streaming api (like long polling)
18:24:39	oprypin	you dont know what you're signing up for
18:24:48	Yardanico	oprypin, I know it's not easy
18:24:52	Yardanico	all these corner cases
18:25:04	Yardanico	oprypin, does your crystal bot uses async or threads?
18:25:07	oprypin	you think my bot fails for no reason
18:25:16	Yardanico	oprypin, let me guess
18:25:19	Yardanico	gitter api ?
18:25:21	oprypin	like once in 3 months a new kind of weird socket error comes up
18:25:26	Yardanico	oh
18:25:36	Yardanico	I had a lot of issues like that with VK long polling
18:25:38	oprypin	gitter goes down sometimes
18:25:43	Yardanico	here: https://github.com/VKBots/VBot
18:25:51	Yardanico	(I don't develop it anymore)
18:25:57	oprypin	and like not fully down but some different error every time
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18:53:07	Yardanico	dom96, eh, we can't do this with our current httpclient :( https://github.com/oprypin/critter/blob/master/gitter.cr#L110
18:53:33	Yardanico	basically our httpclient just reads ALL available data until request is complete
18:53:43	dom96	nope, it doesn't
18:53:54	dom96	This is where .bodyStream comes in
18:53:58	Yardanico	yeah I've tried it
18:54:00	dom96	See how `body` is implemented
18:54:17	dom96	if using that doesn't work then we have a bug on our hands :)
18:54:43	couven92	can someone who knows Source Code filters (templating files) help me: https://github.com/couven92/Nim/tree/testament-devel/tests/testament
18:55:08	couven92	I have created the testamenthtml.templ and including it in htmlgen.nim
18:55:39	couven92	but nim complains that I am calling the proc in testamenthtml.templ
18:55:57	couven92	> htmlgen.nim(27, 10) Error: attempting to call undeclared routine: 'generateHtmlTabListItem'
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18:58:15	dom96	Where is the endproc for generateHtmlTabListBegin? (https://github.com/couven92/Nim/blob/testament-devel/tests/testament/testamenthtml.templ#L146 just above)
18:58:32	Yardanico	yeah
18:58:39	Yardanico	these templates aren't indentation based
18:58:44	couven92	dom96, endproc?????
18:58:45	Yardanico	docs mention this
18:58:47	Yardanico	couven92, yes
18:58:51	dom96	#endproc
18:58:58	couven92	ah!
18:59:07	couven92	okay, let me try
18:59:08	Yardanico	Because indentation-based parsing is not suited for a templating engine, control flow statements need end X delimiters
18:59:31	Yardanico	and you can even use export then
18:59:34	Yardanico	*
18:59:52	couven92	hmm... https://nim-lang.org/docs/filters.html did say that :(
18:59:57	Yardanico	yes
19:02:37	Yardanico	dom96, so I firstly use "request" and then read bodyStream?
19:03:15	dom96	Yardanico: yeah, that should work.
19:03:23	dom96	Never tried it though so it might not :)
19:03:27	couven92	dom96, Yardanico: now I get `testamenthtml.templ(144, 5) Error: undeclared identifier: 'endproc'`
19:03:37	dom96	couven92: #end proc (maybe)
19:03:45	Yardanico	couven92, yeah^
19:03:48	Yardanico	as docs say, end X
19:03:50	Yardanico	not endX
19:04:35	Yardanico	dom96, it doesn't work it seems :(
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19:06:28	Yardanico	maybe I'm doing it wrong, IDK
19:07:29	couven92	Yardanico, dom96: end proc works, but does not do anything. I still get the original error in htmlgen.nim
19:07:34	Yardanico	hmm
19:07:50	dom96	maybe you're missing some more #end proc
19:07:52	couven92	and exporting with * does not work at all
19:07:53	dom96	or some other #end x
19:08:05	dom96	Yardanico: Up for investigating the problem? :)
19:08:10	Yardanico	dom96, yeah I'm trying to
19:08:19	dom96	great
19:09:59	Yardanico	dom96, basically while true loop in httpclient.nim at line 991 doesn't break
19:10:12	Yardanico	because gitter sends message in json and \r
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19:10:16	Yardanico	not \c\L
19:11:49	dom96	it should reach line 1042, where it reads the body
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19:12:10	dom96	What does Gitter actually send?
19:12:13	dom96	Like all the content
19:12:47	oprypin	http keepalive with \r-separated jsons
19:13:11	Yardanico	dom96, https://developer.gitter.im/docs/streaming-api
19:13:15	Yardanico	The JSON stream returns messages as JSON objects that are delimited by carriage return (\r). Newline characters (\n) may occur in messages, but carriage returns should not.
19:13:46	dom96	Yeah, but tell me the raw data that the Gitter servers send once you send a HTTP request to whatever the URL is
19:14:26	oprypin	{"a": "b"}\r{"a": "b"}\r\r\r{"a": "c"}
19:14:37	oprypin	with variable waits after each \r
19:14:54	Yardanico	so firstly it just sends some http stuff
19:14:55	dom96	You're just giving me the body
19:15:00	dom96	I'm interested in the HTTP headers
19:15:07	Yardanico	ok
19:15:12	oprypin	i dont have them ready but i never use those
19:15:30	Yardanico	dom96, https://gist.github.com/Yardanico/7a042bf55895a7cb763a03c72ebd52b6
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19:16:15	oprypin	i mean i dont exactly feel great about my bot being replaced for no reason but whatever
19:16:32	Yardanico	well I don't really want to replace it
19:16:35	Yardanico	at least I want to write it :P
19:17:06	dom96	and then presumably after that it sends \c\l\c\l, right?
19:17:26	Yardanico	yeah, it sends one \13\10 which is \c\l (AFAIK)
19:17:31	dom96	or well, just an empty line
19:17:43	dom96	so httpclient should break at line 1003
19:17:47	dom96	Is it really not doing that?
19:18:21	Yardanico	yeah it did it, but then it still runs
19:18:21	Yardanico	hmm
19:18:36	dom96	That's impossible since it breaks :)
19:22:03	Yardanico	dom96, so if I ctrl+c it shows that it's running parseChunks at line 903
19:22:34	dom96	that's probably where the bug is
19:22:44	dom96	echo chunkSizeStr
19:23:35	Yardanico	dom96, so if gitter answers with some event - it's something like 219 or 211, if there's no events - 2
19:23:57	Yardanico	dom96, but still
19:24:17	Yardanico	parseChunks will run until they parse ALL response body, no?
19:24:28	dom96	nope, it's async
19:24:33	dom96	What's your code?
19:24:48	Yardanico	well I've tried async firstly, and then sync one
19:24:52	Yardanico	I'm using sync one
19:24:59	Yardanico	and basically client.request doesn't return at all
19:25:07	dom96	well... use async one
19:25:12	Yardanico	it would be the same, no?
19:25:15	dom96	no
19:25:33	Yardanico	dom96, should I await client.request?
19:25:38	dom96	although hrm
19:25:48	Yardanico	I will need to await or read it anyway
19:26:12	dom96	Try changing line 1042: 'await' -> 'asyncCheck'
19:27:12	Yardanico	dom96, compile-time error: got (void), but expected one of: proc asyncCheck[T](future: Future[T])
19:27:22	Yardanico	and yes, I'm using async version now
19:27:31	Yardanico	ah
19:28:12	couven92	okay dom96, Yardanico, got it to work :) https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/6058 is now ready to merge and will bring beatiful testament HTML :)
19:28:24	dom96	Yardanico: might need a when in there
19:28:35	Yardanico	dom96, yeah I've added asyncCheck to "else" after when statement
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19:31:37	zayu	Hi, quick and simple question: I have an old version of the nim compiler and want to update it. How do I do that?
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19:31:59	PMunch	zayu, uninstall and install choosenim
19:32:13	PMunch	After that you can use it to switch between versions :)
19:32:16	zayu	I see, thanks
19:32:18	dom96	(or if you've installed Nim via choosenim just run `choosenim update stable`)
19:32:33	zayu	No I cloned it
19:32:34	PMunch	Yeah of course
19:32:54	PMunch	What version by the way?
19:32:56	PMunch	Just for fun
19:33:11	zayu	Sec will check
19:33:14	Yardanico	dom96, well should I set a callback to bodyStream to receive data?
19:33:42	zayu	nim version 0.15.3
19:33:55	Yardanico	zayu, cd yournimrepodir
19:33:56	Yardanico	git pull
19:33:59	Yardanico	nim c koch
19:34:01	PMunch	Oh wow, yeah that's pretty old
19:34:04	Yardanico	./koch boot -d:release
19:34:08	Yardanico	./koch tools
19:34:10	zayu	Very old!
19:34:10	Yardanico	but this may fail
19:34:24	zayu	It's all good, I'll go for choosenim
19:34:41	zayu	Seems like stack for Haskell which is quite nice
19:34:48	zayu	Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated!
19:34:55	PMunch	No problem :)
19:35:04	Yardanico	zayu, but remove your existing nim installation first
19:35:11	Yardanico	otherwise you may encounter some very strange issues
19:35:27	zayu	Yeah, no worries. I'll remove it from path and stuff
19:36:01	Yardanico	dom96, I'll give you the code now
19:36:24	dom96	do it the same as `body`
19:36:29	dom96	bbl
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19:40:00	Yardanico	dom96, yeah, indeed asyncCheck solves this problem
19:50:14	Yardanico	dom96, but I don't think it should work that way anyway
19:50:26	Yardanico	because sync code wouldn't for example be able to read bodystream at all
19:50:33	Yardanico	since parseBody will still block it
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20:07:37	dom96	yes, well, for sync code you'd need to use another thread anyway
20:08:12	bkerin	hi guys
20:08:37	bkerin	somewhere in docs I ran accross a list of different gc options you could specify but I don't remember where and now can't find
20:10:00	Yardanico	bkerin, one sec
20:10:11	Yardanico	dom96, it's strange though
20:10:20	Yardanico	ruby allows you to do that in one thread it seems
20:10:37	Yardanico	dom96, https://github.com/gitterHQ/gitter-ruby-stream/blob/master/gitter-stream.rb
20:10:54	Yardanico	probably it's because they use third-party package :P
20:11:08	bkerin	ah theres a --gc option in the compiler manual
20:11:18	bkerin	kinda mysterious what the options mean though
20:11:24	Yardanico	bkerin, why?
20:11:30	Yardanico	you just choose needed GC
20:12:08	bkerin	well not sure what v2 go regions mean for example, and the other ones are not too specific about what goes on either
20:12:24	Yardanico	bkerin, well then just use default gc :)
20:12:54	bkerin	what I'm actually wondering is if there's a way to make gc immediate, st when var goes out of scope its destructor runs right away
20:13:15	Yardanico	bkerin, hmm, IDK about that, you can ask Araq
20:14:16	bkerin	seems like nim has almost all needed to do db-backed types pretty easily, but requiring .delete() or something whenever anything goes out of scope or accepting that db gets out of sync both seem somewhat undesirable
20:17:10	Araq	bkerin, you can use a withDb template for that
20:18:24	Araq	or do what all the cool kids are doing, use experimental features (destructors) and complain when it doesn't work ;-)
20:18:51	bkerin	not sure what you mean by withDb template
20:19:55	bkerin	I'm inclined towards destructors but like I said it would be nice if they ran immediately when a var goes out of scope, so accessible vars and existing db rows stay in sync for a db-backed type
20:21:57	Yardanico	bkerin, they will
20:22:01	Yardanico	with new destructors :)
20:22:24	Yardanico	because destroyer compiler pass will inject destructor calls into AST
20:22:39	bkerin	o nice
20:22:53	bkerin	so no need even to pick markAndSweep collector in particular
20:22:58	bkerin	er
20:23:02	bkerin	ref counting i mean
20:23:04	Yardanico	bkerin, https://nim-lang.org/araq/destructors.html
20:23:42	Araq	Yardanico, well let's not sell an unfinished feature yet.
20:25:00	Yardanico	Araq, but you'll finish it, wouldn't you ? :)
20:25:22	Yardanico	I think these destructors can be actually useful in many contexts
20:25:38	bkerin	yah please im in kind of a hurry here :)
20:26:06	Yardanico	bkerin, you can already *try* new destructors, but it's very-very-very experimental
20:26:36	Yardanico	bkerin, https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/tests/destructor/tcustomseqs.nim
20:26:42	bkerin	fair warning thx
20:27:15	bkerin	Araq i'm curious what you envision by withDb() if a brief summary is possible?
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20:29:44	Araq	https://nim-lang.org/docs/tut2.html#templates
20:29:53	Araq	template withFile example
20:30:48	couven92	Araq, here you go: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/6058
20:31:02	couven92	nice pretty testament HTML noe done! :)
20:31:14	couven92	s/noe/now/^
20:31:23	Yardanico	couven92, how does it look ?:)
20:31:26	Yardanico	now
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20:31:43	Yardanico	ah, the same?
20:31:51	Yardanico	you just reworked it to use filters?
20:31:57	MadHatter_	Hi guys! How it goes?
20:32:01	couven92	Yardanico, yes
20:32:07	Yardanico	MadHatter_, hi!
20:32:09	couven92	MadHatter_: Hi there! :)
20:33:15	MadHatter_	I'm a bit in trouble here :(
20:33:35	MadHatter_	I'm pretty sure someone got into this before, but I didn't find solution yet
20:33:42	Yardanico	MadHatter_, what's your problem?
20:33:57	MadHatter_	postgres C api connect just hangs and does nothing when it cannot find database host
20:34:51	Yardanico	MadHatter_, are you about https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/master/lib/impure/db_postgres.nim#L503 ?
20:34:57	MadHatter_	I think I need to wrap db connect into async procedure and wait for timeout, but can't figure out what this proc would need to get work
20:35:24	MadHatter_	Yardanico, yep and low-level too
20:35:41	Yardanico	MadHatter_, well this proc will throw an error if it can't connect
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20:36:35	couven92	what does `^1` do again?
20:36:51	miran	similar to python's -1
20:37:01	miran	indexing from the right side
20:37:29	couven92	okay, so Mystring[^1] gives me the last character?
20:37:32	MadHatter_	Yardanico, unfortunately it doesn't, because low-level API hangs
20:37:37	miran	couven92: yep
20:37:45	Yardanico	MadHatter_, well there's no way to solve that
20:37:55	Yardanico	you wouldn't be able to solve it using async
20:38:01	Yardanico	because this call will just block forever
20:38:04	Yardanico	if C api hangs
20:38:12	Yardanico	you should probably try updating your postgresql
20:38:19	Yardanico	because it's a bug in postgresql then
20:39:44	MadHatter_	well this is bad news, because it's freshly installed libpq for alpine
20:40:53	Yardanico	MadHatter_, but really you can't solve that, because it's not an issue from nim side. you can however try to connect in another thread, and wait if it successes in the main thread
20:41:00	Yardanico	but this would be a hack
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20:44:01	MadHatter_	agreed, but this is also a solution
20:44:50	*	miran quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
20:46:25	Yardanico	dom96, merge https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/6051 ? :) couven92 explained why ^1 can't be used here
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20:48:07	Araq	these align* procs all need to move to unicode.nim
20:48:23	couven92	Araq, ah, right, I remember :P
20:48:28	Araq	(and be made utf-8 aware)
20:48:45	couven92	that was why I went on this unicode crusade last time :D
20:50:11	couven92	Araq, so https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/6301 then?
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20:52:17	Araq	couven92, clean up this PR please
20:52:26	Araq	only the unicode related changes please
20:53:09	Yardanico	Araq, what about https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/3056? the problem is that renderer.nim doesn't handle unicode at all
20:54:03	Araq	Yardanico, easy to fix, just make it escape only \0..\31 as well as invalid UTF-8
20:54:12	Yardanico	Araq, ok
20:55:06	couven92	Araq, I don't understand waht you mean... do you mean the strutils changes? sure, I can remove them out of this
20:55:17	Araq	yes
20:57:19	Yardanico	Araq, wait, then "for i in countup(0, len(s)-1): add(result, toNimChar(s[i]))" needs to be changed to user utf8 iterator, right?
20:57:27	Yardanico	hm, I'll try without it first
20:58:07	Araq	that iterator likely doesn't do what you want
20:58:33	Yardanico	Araq, ah, yeah, I don't need it probably
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21:02:08	shashlick	Araq's live streams are not getting archived on twitch
21:02:23	Yardanico	shashlick, yes
21:02:24	*	oky joined #nim
21:02:28	Yardanico	they're on youtube
21:02:33	couven92	Araq, okay cleaned up as you asked. CI running
21:02:35	shashlick	Timing just doesn't work from the US to watch live
21:02:39	shashlick	Oh that's great
21:02:50	Yardanico	shashlick, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAIXKsgiEkRjwlNgduABgmw
21:02:59	couven92	Yardanico, yeah I subscribed and belled Araq's YT :)
21:03:52	shashlick	Yardanico: thanks!
21:04:11	Yardanico	Araq, should I import unicode module and check if result string is invalid in makeNimString? because if I would do validateUtf8 on stringified char in toNimChar - it's going to fail
21:08:46	Yardanico	ah nvm
21:08:57	Araq	copy the algorithm from validateUtf8 and adapt it to your needs
21:09:45	Araq	libraries are overrated, diy works better :P
21:10:33	Yardanico	Araq, well I can embed validateUtf8 into makeNimString
21:10:45	Araq	yes
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21:13:08	dom96	Yardanico: Did you get it working?
21:13:16	Yardanico	dom96, yes, I did
21:13:20	Yardanico	are you about gitter?
21:13:26	dom96	yeah
21:13:31	Yardanico	but I couldn't figure a way to run it without "while true" loop :P
21:13:40	Yardanico	callbacks are hell here
21:13:45	dom96	Show me the code :)
21:14:03	Yardanico	dom96, working one or with callbacks?
21:14:49	dom96	I want to help you with the callbacks
21:17:45	*	MadHatter_ joined #nim
21:18:56	MadHatter_	Hi guys again, my problem with libpq is somewhat resolved by switching on ubuntu. So this is definitely a bug with alpine's libpq
21:19:57	*	solitudesf quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:21:35	dom96	Yardanico: So you're trying to avoid 'while true' by using callbacks?
21:21:41	Yardanico	dom96, yes
21:21:47	dom96	You don't need to go so far, one callback is fine
21:22:03	dom96	But you can make it '{.async.}' and use 'await' inside it.
21:22:17	dom96	let final = await streamFut.read()
21:22:34	*	claudiuinberlin quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
21:22:52	dom96	Also, I don't think you need to check for 'finished'
21:23:59	Yardanico	dom96, it seems I can't use {.async.} here :(
21:24:15	dom96	why?
21:24:23	Yardanico	maybe you didn't notice - I'm setting a callback for a FutureStream, not for a Future
21:27:37	dom96	You'll need the while true then
21:27:58	dom96	sadly
21:28:15	*	NimBot joined #nim
21:28:38	dom96	It would be nice if we could get an iterator for FutureStream
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21:29:11	Yardanico	!eval #?braces\r\necho "hi"
21:29:12	NimBot	Compile failed: Error: invalid directive: '\'
21:30:58	dom96	bah, I need to learn how to deal with journalctl
21:32:10	federico3	dom96: -f to follow, -u <unit> to filter by unit, --identifier <id..> to filter by name...
21:32:42	dom96	federico3: What's the easiest way to find output around where the process terminated?
21:33:26	federico3	do you know the name of the process?
21:33:46	dom96	yep
21:33:59	federico3	start with sudo journalctl --since today | grep fooo -C10 just to take a look
21:34:26	FromGitter	<Yardanico> asdasd
21:34:31	Yardanico	oh, wrong chat, sry
21:34:36	dom96	federico3: That gave a lot of output
21:35:04	dom96	but it did narrow it down
21:35:06	federico3	sudo journalctl --since today will run in a pager, type '/' to search
21:35:18	dom96	didn't run in a pager :)
21:35:28	federico3	it should
21:35:42	federico3	without '| grep ..'
21:35:58	dom96	oh, that's what you mean
21:36:05	dom96	yeah, well I found it anyway
21:36:09	dom96	"out of memory" :\
21:36:16	Yardanico	dom96, lol
21:36:24	FromGitter	<watzon> Hmm question. While digging through the code in another repo I found this: ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` ⏎ ⏎ What does `magic` do and why can't I find any documentation for it? [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59ea6c5832e080696e070ace]
21:36:26	Yardanico	btw it can happen if you've casted something wrongly
21:36:43	Yardanico	watzon: it means that this magic is implemented in this repo
21:36:47	Yardanico	or in library it uses
21:36:51	Yardanico	do you have the link?
21:37:00	Yardanico	this "magic" is probably a macro
21:37:02	Yardanico	or a template
21:37:57	FromGitter	<watzon> Here's a link to the version I forked. The original version doesn't build with nimble so I had to fix it https://github.com/watzon/telebot.nim/blob/master/private/api.nim
21:38:22	Yardanico	watzon: https://github.com/watzon/telebot.nim/blob/master/private/utils.nim#L155
21:38:57	FromGitter	<watzon> I found it
21:39:05	FromGitter	<watzon> I thought it might have been built in
21:39:07	dom96	Yardanico: Pretty sure it's a GC issue :\
21:39:11	*	nsf joined #nim
21:39:14	Yardanico	dom96, gc safety?
21:39:24	dom96	no, the GC is leaking memory
21:39:33	dom96	either that or an async bug
21:39:38	Yardanico	watzon: you can inspect the resulting output of this macro
21:39:47	Yardanico	just add "echo result.toStrLit" at the end of it
21:40:06	FromGitter	<watzon> Thank you for that Yardanico
21:41:29	*	NimBot joined #nim
21:42:12	dom96	yeah, that's pretty bad
21:42:21	dom96	It rises every time I refresh IRC logs
21:43:05	Araq	dom96, there are no known GC leaks. there is apparently an issue with memory fragmentation
21:43:51	dom96	I'm going to see if I can reproduce locally
21:43:59	Araq	but that's the memory allocator, not the GC :P
21:44:05	watzon	Follow up question, this time from IRC because Gitter annoys me. I am getting the error `unhandled exception: SSL support is not available. Cannot connect over SSL.`. Do I have to do something special to rebuild Nim with SSL support? I may have not had openSSL installed when I built it
21:44:17	dom96	watzon: yep, rebuild with -d:ssl
21:44:26	Yardanico	watzon, add -d:ssl to compiler command
21:44:29	watzon	Thanks :)
21:44:42	Yardanico	and also you need openssl lib (not dev version)
21:44:49	Yardanico	well dev will work too
21:44:58	couven92	Araq, I am venturing further into testament source code... I suggest replacing the SQLite database with an append-only JSON file
21:45:14	couven92	that will be much easier to deal with for parallel testament
21:46:27	darkn0de	hi couven92, which project is this? and how to you plan to do json as append only?
21:47:09	darkn0de	sqlite does lock for writes (but not reads), but append-only might end up with partial writes-while-reading with multiple readers
21:47:27	Araq	couven92, too complex just create different .json files
21:47:49	couven92	ah, a new one for each run
21:48:05	darkn0de	never mind :)
21:48:08	couven92	darkn0de, this is testament, the Nim Tester
21:48:12	darkn0de	oh cool.
21:48:37	darkn0de	i wish there was a good way to do appends to json without rewriting the whole file.
21:48:46	darkn0de	you can do it with log files, csv files.. why not json
21:49:05	couven92	darkn0de, It's the thing that makes the GitHub CI builds turn red from time to time, mostly because running it causes build timeouts
21:49:21	darkn0de	ahh I see
21:49:26	couven92	darkn0de, yeah I know how to do parallel log dumping
21:49:28	dom96	darkn0de: why can't you do it with json?
21:49:33	bkerin	bye guys thx for help
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21:49:51	darkn0de	dom96, i'm saying you can't really append to a json file after writing it.
21:49:55	*	bkerin quit (Quit: Confucius say: Man who lay woman on hill not on level.)
21:50:11	darkn0de	dom96, you really just have to write a new file and atomically rename
21:50:11	dom96	darkn0de: You can have a file which contains multiple json objects, one per line :)
21:50:28	darkn0de	dom96, that's not a single json doc anymore then
21:50:42	couven92	dom96, darkn0de, Araq: point is: with JSON if you have an array at the roor, you can just blindly remove the last character (the closing bracket) and replace it with new array items
21:51:07	couven92	s/roor/root/^
21:51:28	darkn0de	couven92, agreed, but that's kinda blindly writing. if you do two writes at same time, bad things happen ;)
21:51:38	darkn0de	couven92, you could od it easily with yaml though
21:51:48	darkn0de	because there's no closing characters
21:52:36	Araq	json is better than xml. but still pretty bad :-
21:52:52	couven92	darkn0de, yeah, the system uses a global variable for the db right now... in theory there's no real difference to my approach. But I remember that Araq wanted to rid testament of the SQLite dependency
21:52:53	darkn0de	definitely
21:53:06	darkn0de	couven92, that makes sense
21:53:32	darkn0de	but sqlite does give you nice write lock guarantees. of course, if you don't have multiple writers, then it doesn't really matter.
21:54:17	darkn0de	anyway sorry for taking the convo off track ;)
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21:55:12	couven92	Araq, what did you mean by just creating different json files? A new one for each time I run testament?
21:55:30	dom96	Araq: Yep, I can reproduce it. How do I investigate?
21:59:17	Yardanico	darkn0de, that's fine
21:59:26	Yardanico	on-topic off-topic is acceptable here :P
21:59:33	Yardanico	*relevant off-topic
22:00:06	darkn0de	cool ;)
22:02:59	watzon	Is there a good way to include a local package as a dependency for testing? Something like npm's link option
22:03:17	Yardanico	watzon, yeah
22:03:21	Yardanico	run "nimble develop"
22:03:28	Yardanico	in the folder with the package
22:03:47	Yardanico	so if you import your package somewhere, version from this dir will be used
22:04:05	watzon	Ah perfect
22:04:18	watzon	Thanks again Yardanico. You the real MVP
22:05:03	couven92	Yardanico, that is actually imensly helpful! :O
22:05:06	couven92	Nice! :)
22:06:14	Yardanico	couven92, well I just keep an eye on new libraries/changes in nim ecosystem :P
22:06:22	couven92	:)
22:07:02	*	d10n-work quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
22:07:33	darkn0de	Yardanico, that's awesome - does that make sense if you're compiling a static binary as well, or not really matter since they'll get embedded anyway?
22:08:45	Yardanico	darkn0de, are you about OpenSSL ?
22:09:04	Yardanico	it doesn't statically link by default, but you can do it of course
22:09:07	Yardanico	*linked
22:14:28	*	Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
22:14:30	dom96	Sounds like Nim could use a "This week/month in Nim" newsletter :)
22:14:36	*	themagician quit ()
22:17:59	gokr	dom96: Random question - can Jester do long polls?
22:18:23	dom96	gokr: yes, but I haven't tested it extensively
22:18:48	gokr	Ok, because I have a need for that in Arduinobot.
22:19:27	gokr	Clients submit compilation jobs - and right now, they have to poll on a URL for the compilation result to get done.
22:19:29	*	Trustable quit (Remote host closed the connection)
22:20:42	gokr	The MQTT API that Arduinobot also has is better in that regard, you "emulate" a request/response by having the client subscribe to a specific result topic, where the server will publish the result. So no polling needed.
22:21:12	gokr	But it would be neat perhaps to try a long request for the HTTP endpoint.-
22:21:45	watzon	Any easy way to take an Object and turn it into a JsonNode?
22:21:50	gokr	dom96: Also, I do share the "fear" around Nim dropping the GC.
22:21:55	Yardanico	watzon, what object?
22:22:13	dom96	gokr: good, don't worry I'll keep fighting for it :)
22:22:55	Yardanico	watzon, nim is not really dynamic, so you'll need to create a json like that
22:23:01	watzon	Yardanico: an `object of RootObj` object called `TelegramObject*`
22:23:09	Yardanico	watzon, well, you would need to do it manually
22:23:15	watzon	Damn
22:23:16	Yardanico	like
22:23:20	watzon	Ok haha
22:23:35	Yardanico	let mydata = %*{"field": 1, "data": [1, 2, 3, 4]}
22:23:44	Yardanico	%* is a macro from json.nim which lets you write your json like this
22:23:57	Yardanico	let mydata = %*{"field": obj.myfield, "data": obj.mydata}
22:24:14	watzon	Well that's cool
22:24:39	gokr	watzon: You also have module marshal with the $$ proc
22:24:53	Yardanico	well but marshal shouldn't be generally used for APIs
22:25:04	Yardanico	(here it's telegram api)
22:25:07	gokr	sure, agree
22:25:12	Yardanico	and I think marshal should finally change
22:25:14	watzon	So I'm guessing there's not a pretty_print method of some kind that would allow you to print an object to the console in a readable way?
22:25:26	Yardanico	watzon, hmm, no
22:25:35	Yardanico	but this would be not that hard to create :P
22:25:44	gokr	For just dumping to console - why not $$ ?
22:25:45	Yardanico	well it would be quite hard
22:25:47	watzon	Oh well. That would be kinda nice to have built in though
22:25:54	Yardanico	watzon, well, yeah, as gokr said
22:25:55	watzon	I use it extensively in ruby and crystal
22:25:59	Yardanico	you can just
22:26:06	Yardanico	echo ($$myobj).pretty
22:26:10	Yardanico	$$ is from marshal module
22:26:14	Yardanico	ah wait
22:26:15	Yardanico	wrong
22:26:15	watzon	Would that work?
22:26:20	watzon	I'll try that
22:26:41	Yardanico	watzon, parseJson($$myobj).pretty
22:26:54	Yardanico	parseJson and pretty are from json
22:26:56	Yardanico	$$ is from marshal
22:28:35	watzon	Well it worked lol
22:28:43	watzon	I had to do this `echo(pretty(parseJson($$(update))))`
22:28:49	Yardanico	why?
22:28:54	Yardanico	you don't need to do that
22:29:11	Yardanico	echo parseJson($$myobj).pretty()
22:29:13	Yardanico	should work
22:29:51	watzon	You're right
22:29:51	Yardanico	yeah it does work
22:29:53	watzon	That worked
22:29:59	Yardanico	UFCS :P
22:30:11	watzon	Now I just need to write it to a file instead of using echo. That object is huge
22:30:32	Yardanico	writeFile("myfile", parseJson($$myobj).pretty())
22:31:01	watzon	Yardanico: well aren't you on fire today
22:31:08	watzon	Saved me having to look it up in the api
22:31:10	watzon	Lol
22:31:30	Yardanico	well you still can open a file, write to it, close it
22:31:35	Yardanico	but it's 3 lines! :P
22:31:50	Yardanico	writeFile basically does the same
22:32:04	watzon	Yeah I'm all about less lines
22:32:39	gokr	echo pretty(%*myobj)
22:32:47	gokr	May also work, worked for an object for me.
22:33:10	Yardanico	lol it works
22:33:11	Yardanico	how?)
22:33:25	Yardanico	I didn't knew that it also works
22:33:32	Yardanico	Convert an expression to a JsonNode directly, without having to specify
22:33:38	Yardanico	watzon, so you don't need marshal
22:33:43	gokr	right
22:33:49	Yardanico	writeFile("myfile", pretty(%*myobj))
22:35:18	watzon	Hmm not working for mine
22:35:19	gokr	That's one of those things I like in Nim stdlib. Reading or writing a file - single call. Simple. Filenames and paths are strings. Simple.
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22:35:26	watzon	I'm getting `undeclared field`
22:35:46	watzon	But that is really nice
22:35:52	Yardanico	watzon, well it probably wouldn't work for all possible objects
22:36:02	Yardanico	gokr, also don't forget "my" / "file" / "path" :)
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22:39:02	gokr	Who made th play.nim-lang.org btw?
22:39:09	dom96	zacharycarter
22:39:10	Yardanico	gokr, zacharycarter
22:39:17	Yardanico	dom96, ah, you're faster to type :P
22:39:36	Yardanico	gokr, https://github.com/zacharycarter/nim-playground
22:39:40	Yardanico	it's not that much lines
22:39:44	gokr	One neat thing would be to put the src as a base64 url param, that way one could share a code snippet.
22:39:50	Yardanico	gokr, you can share it
22:39:51	Yardanico	via gist
22:40:00	Yardanico	there's "create gist" button
22:40:01	gokr	Oh, well, but... then you can't run it anymore.
22:40:08	Yardanico	what do you mean?
22:40:22	Yardanico	gokr, https://play.nim-lang.org/?gist=cb47b9af98aa2382483bb1532e136d78
22:40:24	gokr	Well, perhaps I misunderstood
22:40:28	gokr	ah, ok
22:40:46	Yardanico	you just press "create gist" after you've written some code
22:40:51	Yardanico	and it will create an anonymous gist
22:40:59	Yardanico	and give you gist/playground links
22:41:03	gokr	neat, ok, forget what I said then :)
22:45:28	Yardanico	nim: you have many ways to do one thing, but only one of them is idiomatic, and others are for fp/python/c programmers :P
22:46:59	Yardanico	but sometimes idiomatic way = python's way
22:47:07	Yardanico	or c way
22:47:21	Yardanico	nim allows much more freedom than other languages
22:49:25	Yardanico	syntax skins (I know that's probably gonna be removed, but who knows), identifier equality, UFCS, different backends, different GCs
22:49:56	darkn0de	is there like a dir() command as from python
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22:50:02	Yardanico	darkn0de, yep!
22:50:09	Yardanico	ah
22:50:11	Yardanico	sorry
22:50:26	Yardanico	there's no :P but it can be done with a macro, I'll probably try to do it today or tomorrow
22:50:39	Yardanico	darkn0de, why do you need dir anyway?
22:50:42	darkn0de	AWESOME :) is there an easy way to just find out the keys of an object
22:50:45	Yardanico	all fields are known at compile-time
22:50:47	darkn0de	trying to inspect things like response
22:50:56	darkn0de	just to avoid looking at docs ;)
22:51:01	Yardanico	well use "go to definition"
22:51:03	Yardanico	what's your editor?
22:51:06	darkn0de	vim
22:51:09	Yardanico	ah
22:51:20	Yardanico	vscode just has vscode-nim extension, and it supports nimsuggest
22:51:27	darkn0de	ah neat :)
22:51:41	Yardanico	so you just ctrl+click and you can see the source file with that type/variable/something else
22:51:54	Yardanico	darkn0de, https://nim-lang.org/docs/asynchttpserver.html#Request
22:51:55	darkn0de	that's cool.
22:52:25	darkn0de	yeah I was going to look :) just something I miss (like an interpreter)
22:52:26	watzon	+1 for the vscode-nim extension
22:52:30	Yardanico	darkn0de, nim secret
22:52:37	Yardanico	it's a command
22:52:39	darkn0de	can't import stuff though right?
22:52:42	Yardanico	you can
22:52:46	darkn0de	oh!
22:52:48	Yardanico	but only stuff that doesn't use C libraries
22:52:53	Yardanico	e.g. times module wouldn't work
22:52:53	darkn0de	oh ok
22:52:59	darkn0de	or net + openssl?
22:53:05	Yardanico	yeah that wouldn't work too
22:53:13	darkn0de	still cool though.
22:53:26	Yardanico	so it's called secret so people don't complain about it :P
22:53:31	darkn0de	and actually i was trying to play with times in it , so you're right
22:53:37	darkn0de	i guessed that part ;)
22:53:40	Yardanico	it uses tiny C compiler
22:53:47	darkn0de	cool
22:53:48	Yardanico	it's located directly in the Nim repo
22:53:52	Yardanico	(tinyc directory)
22:53:56	darkn0de	nice!!
22:54:39	darkn0de	like I'm getting 'undeclared field: body' on a response object that was just workign fine with it
22:54:49	darkn0de	dir(response) would be perfect ;)
22:55:01	FromGitter	<stisa> Yardanico are you sure about tinyc? I thought `secret` used the vm
22:55:06	Yardanico	stisa: oh
22:55:10	Yardanico	I may be wrong, yeah
22:55:12	Yardanico	it probably uses VM
22:55:29	Yardanico	darkn0de, nim has a virtual machine for running compile-time Nim code/macros/templates
22:55:52	Araq	dir(response) is actually a pretty weird solution
22:55:56	darkn0de	very cool.
22:56:18	darkn0de	Araq, how so? I just want it for debugging
22:56:18	darkn0de	to see what's in response
22:56:39	darkn0de	just not a while lot of data on why response is there (http response object) and not otherwise
22:57:25	darkn0de	as it turns out it was either i needed import tables
22:57:28	Araq	could use 'repr' instead
22:57:37	darkn0de	great point!
22:57:58	Araq	well firstly, 'dir' is an obscure name for this feature
22:58:03	Yardanico	Araq, fields ?
22:58:15	Araq	secondly, it's conflating runtime and compiletime aspects
22:58:17	darkn0de	fields is kind of like .items() in python yes?
22:58:23	darkn0de	Araq, very true.
22:58:24	Yardanico	darkn0de, I'm about name :)
22:58:37	darkn0de	:)
22:59:07	darkn0de	Araq, well, in Python it makes sense, because runtime is more or less compiletime
22:59:31	Yardanico	darkn0de, items() is actually a kinda-neccessary name in nim: if you name your iterator (for your object) "items()", it will for with for loop like that: "for item in myobj"
22:59:37	darkn0de	but here, I agree, but why not just show what attrs are in an object at compiletime
22:59:48	darkn0de	interesting
23:01:58	Yardanico	darkn0de, it's easy to get type definition of a type at compile-time
23:05:11	Yardanico	darkn0de, import macros
23:05:12	Yardanico	macro echoType(x: typed): untyped = echo toStrLit(x.symbol.getImpl())
23:05:22	Yardanico	and then you can use it like echoType(MyObjectType)
23:05:47	Yardanico	well you can use it on stdlib types as well
23:07:59	*	nsf quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9)
23:15:06	darkn0de	Yardanico, very awesome
23:15:11	darkn0de	I will try that thank you!
23:16:01	Yardanico	darkn0de, but don't forget that it would be printed at compile time
23:16:17	Yardanico	so after between "processing" stuff
23:16:55	darkn0de	Yardanico, I see that :) echoType(response) prints request(client, url, post_body, nil) ;)
23:17:02	Yardanico	well it's a variable
23:17:09	darkn0de	not exactly what the runtime result of response.body is
23:17:10	darkn0de	right
23:17:11	Yardanico	you should run it at Request
23:17:18	Yardanico	sorry
23:17:19	Yardanico	at Response
23:17:33	darkn0de	I did..
23:18:00	darkn0de	i printed after doing the request.
23:18:03	Yardanico	darkn0de, are you sure?
23:18:04	Yardanico	hmm
23:18:12	Yardanico	echoType(Response) works if I import httpclient
23:18:13	darkn0de	but since it's run as a compiler macro, it ran before CC: ... lines
23:18:33	darkn0de	positive
23:18:41	Yardanico	darkn0de, are you using jester?
23:19:02	darkn0de	since i don't know what jester is, doubtful :)
23:19:55	darkn0de	here's what I see: Hint: ... (lots), request(...), Hint: [Link], operation successful [SuccessX], then output
23:20:07	darkn0de	in other words, it's actually before some compiling and linking.
23:20:11	Yardanico	darkn0de, yeah it's fine
23:20:12	Yardanico	darkn0de, I mean
23:20:13	darkn0de	pretty cool anyway.
23:20:18	Yardanico	what module you're using?
23:20:22	darkn0de	httpclient
23:20:35	Yardanico	well echoType(Response) would actually print a type definition
23:20:51	Yardanico	you should call this echoType on a type
23:20:57	Yardanico	yeah, I can add so you can call it at variables
23:21:01	Yardanico	but it's not one line anymore
23:21:02	Yardanico	or wait
23:21:26	darkn0de	https://pastebin.com/2VuD6FfS
23:21:51	Yardanico	darkn0de, this macro is meant to echo fields of a type, not fields of a variable :)
23:22:01	Yardanico	like "body: string"
23:22:06	Yardanico	"statusCode: int"
23:22:29	darkn0de	Yardanico, right :) https://pastebin.com/q5rdW2rv
23:22:51	Yardanico	darkn0de, sooo, you shouldn't call it on "response"
23:22:55	darkn0de	exactly.. but the Response object fields should be already known to the compiler at compile time, right?
23:23:08	Yardanico	yes, but there's no macro like that in stdlib
23:23:12	Yardanico	it can be done though
23:23:13	darkn0de	so in other words, I'm just looking to know what fields are in that object. (i.e., status, body, etc)
23:23:23	darkn0de	ah no worries :)
23:23:24	Yardanico	darkn0de, you need values or types?
23:23:37	darkn0de	types. well, attribute names :)
23:23:43	Yardanico	my macro does that
23:23:45	Yardanico	as I said
23:23:51	darkn0de	the echoType one?
23:23:55	Yardanico	you DON'T need to call it on a variable, yes!
23:23:58	darkn0de	ah :)
23:24:05	Yardanico	you should call it on a type
23:24:16	Yardanico	I'll make it work for variables now
23:24:16	darkn0de	ok! :)
23:24:20	darkn0de	awesome!!
23:24:30	darkn0de	gotta run to dinner but brilliant macro
23:24:34	darkn0de	ok cya
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23:33:17	Yardanico	darkn0de, didn't test it extensively, but still: https://gist.github.com/Yardanico/7b961cbeb5c8d797e5f4ecf80ff639b0