<< 21-06-2016 >>
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01:54:10girvoAside from http://nim-lang.org/docs/gc.html are there any decent posts/documents around on using Nim for soft-realtime usages? Or even just how to leverage alloc/dealloc nicely? Working on a Pebble smartwatch app, and using Nim for the bulk of the logic in it
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02:34:09girvoAlso, are there any documents I should be looking at to do with allocations in Nim?
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02:35:11girvowell, to be clear, I mean the memory and cache performance of idiomatic Nim code and how to optimise it for real-time cases. If not, I'll go digging and see what I can find myself :)
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03:18:03zdsIs it considered idiomatic, as in Python, to rely on exceptions for control flow? For instance, when parsing a token that may be a number, and may not, is it idiomatic to attempt to parseFloat, and catch a ValueError and try a different branch if it's not a number after all?
03:31:37girvozds: From what I've seen and written, yes, except that I personally find using Either[L, R] or Maybe[T] more useful in a lot of cases, as you can keep your type saftey. I find exceptions are an escape hatch, and very useful, but more useful for -actual- exceptional conditions
03:32:02girvozds: https://github.com/vegansk/nimfp is an excellent implementation of Maybe and Either :)
03:32:11girvo(among other niceities)
03:37:47zdsThat's marvelous! I spent my first day writing out a lot of int | float and wondering why it didn't behavior like either.
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03:42:51girvozds: One thing I found implementing my own Either[L, R] was that Nim v0.14 fixes a lot of generics bugs that were in previous versions, so I highly recommend upgrading! :)
03:43:31girvoAlso, fp's "act" macro is quite neat, allowing you to leverage the Either/Maybe monads in a nicely procedural chained way, similar to "do" in Purescript or Haskell
03:43:56girvoIf you've got some experience with functional type-safe languages, you'll likely enjoy it as much as I am!
03:45:29zdsYes, I think it will make things much smoother for me. Many thanks.
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04:16:32girvoDumb q: easy way of getting the platform name at compile time?
04:17:04girvoUsing it to generate a version string for a util I've got, so itll be "dup 0.1.0-linux" or something similar
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05:50:32fowlgirvo, http://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html#hostOS
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07:11:25flyxseems like the troll still hasn't given up
07:11:30flyx(in the forum)
07:12:05PMunchHmm, link(s)?
07:12:17PMunchAt least it seems like he has given up here
07:12:20flyxhttp://forum.nim-lang.org/t/2330
07:13:48PMunchHmm, that could be someone genuine though
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07:16:49flyxthe troll used GPS as nick here.
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07:20:46PMunchOh, must've missed that. They used a lot of nicks..
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07:39:21girvofowl: Cheers!
07:39:33veganskgirvo, thanks for nice words about nimfp :-)
07:39:49girvovegansk: thanks for the amazing library ;)
07:40:06girvoThough I was almost sad that my cute Either[L, R] impl became useless hehe
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07:40:43girvovegansk: Also, Nim v0.14's generics fixes have made doing monadic type generics way easier. I was running into bugs when trying to tackle it on v0.13
07:40:50girvoThen v0.14 rolled round and it all Just Worked™
07:41:43veganskgirvo, i'm using devel branch of Nim
07:42:55ryu0I have noticed that part of the posix API wrappers are fundamentally broken in how it is down. it uses hardcoded constants for macros which appear to only be valid on Linux.
07:42:59veganskand for now, all the features are tested on devel only
07:43:31ryu0i wonder how difficult it would be to get these "fixed".
07:43:41veganskand it will be so until 1.0 is released
07:43:57girvovegansk: Ah yeah, makes sense. Well, the basics are running beautifully in v0.14 at least :)
07:44:48girvoryu0: Yeah that's something I've noticed too. POSIX is, well, fun at times, but honestly a lot of the stuff I came across just needs to be a little smarter about whether it's POSIX or Linux, heh.
07:45:19ryu0girvo: the proper way appears to be unix platform specific constants.
07:45:21girvoThe Unix socket support for example was easier to just check whether its linux or OSX, but what would be nicer is if its possible to tell whether some platform is POSIX instead
07:45:43ryu0in particular FreeBSD uses different values for some stuff than Linux does.
07:46:03girvoryu0: Yeah. though I wonder how that'll play with cygwin/msys on Windows as well. Like I said, proper POSIX can be fun ;)
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07:46:29ryu0the constants are the main issue i see. POSIX defines the prototypes quite clearly.y
07:46:58girvoWell maybe it's worth adjusting them and testing it out? Does it look particularly difficult to try?
07:47:16ryu0probably not, but i wonder if it would even get accepted.
07:47:29ryu0last i heard Araq wasn't a big fan of the unix side.
07:47:32ryu0:P
07:47:32girvoI'm sure it would, why would you think it wouldn't?
07:47:35girvoHahaha :P
07:47:47ryu0and he said something about compatibility.
07:48:03ryu0it makes me want to rofl when the compatibility is for a broken API :P
07:48:06girvoWell, we got AF_UNIX socket support in, and as long as stuff is gated by proper when defined()'s, platform-specific stuff has been fine
07:48:39ryu0i was thinking to refer to free pascal to get some ideas for how to handle some stuff.
07:48:56ryu0they appear to have a working posix / unix module.
07:49:01girvoNot a bad idea. I've been referring to more and more FP/Delphi libs for cross-platform guidance
07:49:02ryu0with platform specific bits.
07:49:23ryu0some AP
07:49:38ryu0some APIs like epoll shouldn't even be in the posix dir. they're an extension.
07:49:45girvoI think the main reason is that Linux and OS X are the main platforms for the bulk of the contribs, but I'd be very surprised if the team turned down more compatibility! :)
07:50:10ryu0i think posix should be limited to APIs that most if not all unix clones have.
07:50:18ryu0otherwise it seems kind of like a misnomer.
07:50:26girvoDefinitely worth posting an issue on github or a thread on the forums perhaps, get some discussion going about what it should really look like (and seperating out the extensions from the core)
07:50:34girvoBut thats just my opinion! :)
07:50:46ryu0yea, i think i'd like to work on this.
07:51:04ryu0it's one part that has bugged the shit out of me :P
07:51:21ryu0may as well call it the LINUX module the way it is right now.
07:51:31girvoI'd love it, personally.
07:51:54ryu0i like linux, but i really don't like to call something posix if it really isn't portable. :P
07:51:56girvoI'm currently working on using Nim for the Pebble, which is quite fun heh
07:52:18ryu0okay time to try this.
07:53:08girvoI'd love to know how you go!
07:54:50ryu0https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/4382
08:00:07veganskdom96, hi! can you review PR https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/4381 please? Araq is offline and i need to know, can i use features from this PR in my library
08:20:29gokrgirvo: Pebble, interesting
08:21:04gokrI fiddled with Nim and Arduino, wrote an article about it and made a little project
08:21:21gokrgirvo: http://goran.krampe.se/2016/02/25/nim-meets-arduino/
08:23:14gokrgirvo: Among other things there is a patch in there for Nim to use malloc.
08:39:54Araqhi vegansk. I don't think I can merge it :-)
08:42:01veganskAraq, hi! Is the problem in the PR itselfor is this not the issue?
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08:42:55Araqoften these things are subtly wrong and we find out months later when some code type checks that shouldn't
08:43:21Araqyour bug report is about tyTypeDesc in combination with generic type classes
08:43:39Araqyour bug fix doesn't touch tyTypeDesc
08:45:50veganskYes, I know. tyTypeDesc handler calls typeRel again for tyGenericBody
08:48:47veganskAraq, do you want me to handle this situation in tyTypeDesc branch instead of recursive ``typeRel`` call?
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08:58:11Araqvegansk: I think semtypes should have created a tyCompositeTypeClass from this tyGenericBody
08:58:26Araqand for some reason it doesn't.
08:58:49Araqsemtypes, line 839
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09:52:35veganskAraq, so here is the problem. liftParamType is called with tyTypeDesc and it just use paramType.base to create new type.
09:53:02Araqsounds plausible, yes
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09:53:07veganskliftParamType is nether called with tyGenericBody in that situation
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09:55:07Araqwhen you fix, can you also rename tyCompositeTypeClass to tyContainer and tyUserTypeClass to tyConcept? it's just too confusing :-)
09:55:38veganskOk :-)
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10:25:53chemist69Can I change my profile picture in the forum? I am not able to find such an option.
10:26:41def-chemist69: on gravatar.com using the same email address as you used in forum
10:27:04chemist69ah, cool. Thanks
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10:32:13gokrAnyone know anything about this LB Stanza? http://lbstanza.org
10:36:07Araq"should feel at home with Stanza's syntax" well the example uses space before the colons ...
10:38:55gokrI know, that stood out for me too - but... the mix of features look kinda interesting though.
10:39:15Araqit surely looks nice
10:39:22gokrI had never heard of it.
10:39:32AraqStructure Through Indentation
10:39:32AraqSome of you may be concerned about Stanza's use of structure through indentation due to how this system has been implemented in the past. Don't worry. Stanza's indentation structuring mechanism is very simple and predictable.
10:39:32AraqThe indentation structuring mechanism is governed by a single rule: a line ending colon automatically inserts parentheses around the following indented block.
10:39:39Araq<-- we need to steal this :-)
10:40:03gokrYeah, there may be other good things to steal - I wonder about the coroutine stuff for example.
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10:59:04veganskAraq, if I create tyCompositeTypeClass from tyGenericBody like that (https://gist.github.com/vegansk/d89d9c01c5ef2b27be546666f3bfea2d#file-semtypes-nim-L796-L798) it doesn't help. typeRel implementation doesn't find overloaded function
11:14:23Araqdig deeper then.
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12:37:06yglukhovAraq: can i allocate a gc-managed cstring?
12:37:44yglukhovso that the only reference to it is of cstring type
12:41:52cheatfateyglukhov, you trying to save 8-16 bytes per string?
12:45:04yglukhovcheatfate: not really...
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16:35:57Araqyglukhov_: allocate a Nim string, GC_ref it, pass it as cstring to C
16:36:04AraqGC_unref it when done
16:37:23yglukhov_well.. i kinda need the opposite... i want to return gc-ed cstring from "c" function...
16:37:58yglukhov_but i guess cstring type is not traced, right?
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17:05:03AraqC needs to invoke newString then
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19:04:23edub4rthow to use await with a simple future instead of proc? "await fut" doesn't work
19:05:22Araqedub4rt: you need to wrap it in a proc {.async.}
19:09:57edub4rtit did work, but so many lines for a simple case https://gist.github.com/edubart/96fd9cc02e3b896cb09628502b9b7b1f
19:15:19edub4rtno, the first case didn't work, I will keep trying
19:20:24elroodedub4rt, to achieve less lines, have a look at tutorial 1, tut1.html#procedures-result-variable
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19:24:47elroodAraq, perhaps the manual's section on procs could mention result and its special meaning more explicitly and not just implicitly assume it is known from the tutorial
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20:29:06cheatfatei think we need something like python2nim :)
20:30:24namnguyenwith python 3.6, perhaps, when the type annotation is in
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20:51:23Demostype annotations are in
20:51:27DemosI use them in 3.5
20:51:54Demosbut just because the syntax is similar does not mean that would actually work that well
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20:52:21Demosnow a set of macros to bind to a python library via actually calling python would be nice
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20:57:25cheatfatenah, interface with python is useless, but python to nim translator can attract more pythoners to nim
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21:05:57gokruseless?
21:12:01Araqwe have Nimborg but a compiler regression keeps it from working -.-
21:12:28Araqit's misusing 'converter' to its breaking point
21:12:39cheatfateyep, its like you try to adopt rocket engine to bike
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21:17:36PMunchCan I declare types as a type in a tuple? Eg. tuple[name:string, typ:<something?>] Where the tuples typ would actually be a type so you could do something like cast[tuple.typ](something else)
21:19:29Araqwhat? there is 'type(foo)' which is Nim's typeof operator
21:19:44Araqno idea if that's related to your question :P
21:21:05PMunchHmm, not quite :P
21:21:10PMunchI'll try to explain again
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21:22:22PMunchLet's say you want to declare a sequence of types. So var seq = [int,string,bool], first off is it possible? Second, how?
21:25:58namnguyenwhat does that mean to be a sequence of types?
21:26:46PMunchA sequence of type descriptions
21:26:54namnguyenhttp://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#generics-type-classes and the next section on Concepts
21:27:57Demosidk calling python from nim could be useful
21:28:20Demosand a translator probably won't be faster than pypy
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21:28:48PMunchnamnguyen, okay. Real life example time (this is what I'm actually trying to achieve)
21:29:09PMunchI want to create dynamic modules (using dynlib). These modules should be able to request a configuration
21:29:16ephjaDemos: bolted-on static typing?
21:30:03cheatfateDemos, calling python from nim is like using V90 modem :)
21:30:26ephjamaybe more like simplified dynamic checking
21:30:32ephjait's better than nothing
21:30:47namnguyenPMunch, how about a sequence of any?
21:31:13namnguyeni don't think there is a public root type of types
21:31:14PMunchSo the main program will load a module, then call a function to get which configuration options the module wants. Then it will read through the config looking for the variable names from the config. When it finds them it would try to convert it to the type requested, and if everything succeeds then it would be passed back to the module. Otherwise the module would not be initialized and an error thrown.
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21:33:49PMunchHmm namnguyen Any holds a value though.. I only want to know what which type was requested
21:34:20PMunchLet's say the module gives me something like this: Table[string,tuple[typ:<something>, required:bool]]
21:34:44namnguyenPMunch, typedesc?
21:34:52namnguyenhttp://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#special-types-typedesc
21:35:02PMunchFrom that the main program will know what string to look for in the config file, it will know what type to try and convert it too, and if it is required or not.
21:35:29PMunchI tried to do: var test = tuple[name:string, typ:typedesc]
21:35:38PMunchThat results in: 'typedesc' metatype is not valid here; typed '=' instead of ':'?
21:37:58namnguyenPMunch, how about a string?
21:38:03namnguyenthen do a case :-D
21:38:17PMunchOkay, I'm an idiot..
21:38:25PMunchvar test:tuple[name:string, typ:typedesc] = (name: "test", typ: int)
21:38:34PMunchIt was in fact what the suggestion was..
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21:38:54namnguyenoh, declaration and assignment
21:39:14PMunch-_-
21:45:42AraqPMunch: best way to do it is to store a list NimNodes in global compileTime var, each NimNode coming from macros.getType()
21:47:39PMunchHmm, I'll have to look into this tomorrow, got to go to bed now.. But thanks for the help namnguyen and Araq
21:50:15namnguyenyou're welcome
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23:52:08girvoMorning all!
23:52:22girvoQ: asynchttpserver is single-threaded, async event loop based?
23:55:42def-girvo: Hi and yes