<< 22-05-2015 >>
00:00:11Araqvbtt_: but yes, the things are stable or getting stable
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00:00:52Araqreactormonk: like gokr showed on his blog
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00:01:05vikatonhttps://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/2AuJ4vL1
00:01:13reactormonkPeople read blogs? ^^
00:01:27vikatonI'm getting an assertion failed with that code sniipet right there :/
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00:01:57vikatonnode.kind == JObject
00:02:07vikatonNOt quite sure why im getting it :[
00:02:30Araqvikaton: data["score"] doesn't work for a json array
00:02:35Araqcause it makes no sense
00:02:40Araqdata[0] would make sense
00:02:44vikatono
00:02:56vbtt_ok, great
00:03:02vbtt_signing out.. ttyl
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00:04:14vikatonAraq, yeah that seemed to work, but when I open output.json, it has nothing in it :(
00:04:47def-vikaton: you read output.json, you don't write it
00:05:00Araqgood night
00:05:04def-oh wait
00:05:20vikatonI have a wrtieFile in it
00:05:52Araqzdsa: it's actually disturbing that he invented a "context" that's implicitly passed around for every function without realizing that it is the same as a thread local variable
00:06:37def-vikaton: works for me
00:06:56vikatonwhen u open the file in some other text editor it shows?
00:07:00def-yes
00:07:27def-maybe the output.json is in another directory than you expect?
00:07:47vikaton...
00:07:58vikatonI was looking in the wrong folder -.-
00:08:25vikatondef- how do I append to a file?
00:08:40Araqgood night
00:08:52vikatonnight Araq
00:08:52def-vikaton: you open the file with mode fmAppend
00:09:43def-there is no convenience proc like writeFile for appending
00:11:06vikatondef-, docs on opening file with fmAppend? cuz I have no clue
00:11:34def-http://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html#open,File,string,FileMode,int
00:12:05def-var file = open("output.json", fmAppend)
00:13:12vikatonah
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00:15:39vikatondef-, now im kinda confused, how can I utilize writeFile with file?
00:15:42vikatonor I cant?
00:15:47def-you can't
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00:16:19def-write(file, $foobar)
00:16:24def-and finally close(file)
00:16:39vikatonah
00:17:45dtscodeInstructions unclear def-. Dick got caught in fan.
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00:43:07jackvwhat's the best detailed breakdown available of how to wrap a C library using c2nim?
00:44:43def-jackv: http://nim-lang.org/docs/c2nim.html and http://goran.krampe.se/2014/10/16/nim-wrapping-c/ and http://hookrace.net/blog/what-makes-nim-practical/#wrapping-libraries-with-c2nim are the ones I remember
00:44:59jackvah thanks
00:45:10jackvyeah, I've seen yours
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01:12:09jackvwell shit, c2nim doesn't like variadic macros apparently
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01:18:12bassais there a high precision timer in the standard library?
01:22:14jackvwhat would be the best way to fix this line of code? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/df8c9714142c6a88d2dd
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01:28:31fowljackv, var unsupported_term_p: array[4,cstring] = ["dumb".cstring, "cons25", "emacs", nil]
01:28:32fowlvar unsupported_term* = unsupported_term_p[0].addr
01:35:16jackvthanks fowl!
01:35:26jackvon to the next problem lol
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03:38:58tamtaradamHello! Anyone try to write pogramms for arduino or raw avr on nimrod? If yes: what performance did you get?
03:43:58dtscodeIts nim now. Not nimrod
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03:58:30ggVGcmy rod of nim
03:59:34Varriounttamtaradam: I believe it's been done, although I can't remember any links to specific examples.
04:04:46tamtaradamRussian community is lag. I have recently read article that use a "nimrod" name :)
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04:30:39federico3tamtaradam: do you have any docs on nim for arduino?
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04:32:31tamtaradamNo. I don`t find some goods yet.
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04:49:42reactormonkfederico3, tried it, gave up
04:49:47reactormonktoo much heap stuff
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04:55:13reactormonkAraq, what do you think tossing the JS backend and go via emscripten instead?
04:55:33tamtaradamOkay. Is a good practic to use a raw C/C++ library via nim? I want to use a gameplay game engine. What problems I will solve?
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04:56:42reactormonktamtaradam, sure, not a problem. Via importc, or you can even use c2nim on the header file.
04:57:09reactormonktamtaradam, less toothpicks, more expressive, still fast.
04:58:41reactormonk"but these are my 2mBTC anyhoo" ^^
04:59:40tamtaradamreactormonk, thank you :) If we go to one country, i`ll get some cookie to you :)
05:00:25tamtaradamI love coockies :)
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05:13:06reactormonktamtaradam, working out so far?
05:15:19tamtaradamGameplay? Yes, recently they upgrade gameplay`s site
05:16:10reactormonkyour nim adventures.
05:20:04tamtaradamIn siberia :)
05:24:07tamtaradamMay be I don`t understand you, my english is bad :)
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06:14:20reactormonkAraq, btw, where's the file cache logic? The stuff which reads the cached files, so you don't compile a project again
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08:30:50kokozedmanhey guys, is there a kind of way to multiple TChannel for inputs, that is: waiting for multiple messages from multiple TChannel... similar as in Golang
08:30:55kokozedman?
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10:08:04dom96kokozedman: Don't think there is. Create a github issue for that :)
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10:54:27coffeepotwhat types do people use as buffers when interfacing with C? array of bytes? cstring?
10:55:06coffeepotspecifically I want to be able to write data such as int, bool or strings to the buffer for a C call
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11:00:29dom96coffeepot: depends what the C function expects, cstring most of the time.
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11:01:39coffeepotthat's what I've been using, so when writing, say, an int to a cstring, how do I do that? I gather there's a cast involved somehow
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11:02:29coffeepotalso when reading, cast[float](buffer) would work? or do I need to do cast[float](buffer[0])
11:03:27coffeepotwhen writing, if buffer is cstring, do I do buffer[0] = cast[cstring](data)?
11:03:49coffeepotif there's some doc somewhere that deals with this, i'll read that :)
11:04:51dom96hrm
11:05:49*dom96 isn't sure anymore heh
11:06:36coffeepotyeah I kinda just hit this and was like... um hang on I dunno what I'm doing here
11:06:55coffeepotgotta be careful methinks, as this is gonna be unsafe
11:06:59dom96what are you interfacing with?
11:07:11coffeepotodbc
11:07:32coffeepotspecifically SQLBindParameter
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11:09:34dom96What does it expect? an untyped pointer for the data?
11:09:43coffeepotyeah :/
11:10:00dom96I think you should do something like this then:
11:10:20dom96var f = 0.56; sqlBindParam(addr(f))
11:11:12dom96but then I'm not sure how long `f` has to live for
11:11:15dom96so that might be wrong
11:11:15coffeepottrouble is, odbc doesn't copy the data, so I have to retain a buffer for it until after the query's executed :/
11:11:21dom96ahh yes
11:11:26coffeepotyeah I think i'll need to keep hold ofit
11:11:28coffeepotof it
11:11:39coffeepotodbc is such a PITA
11:12:53dom96var floatDataPtr = alloc0(sizeof(float)); floatDataPtr[] = 0.56; sqlBindParam(floatDataPtr)
11:13:21coffeepotthat looks like the job :)
11:13:39dom96actually, you probably have to cast[ptr float](alloc0(sizeof(float)))
11:13:54dom96but I would get a second opinion
11:13:57coffeepotso one last question, hows about reading in multi byte values like float or int from a buffer?
11:13:58dom96I could be entirely wrong lol
11:14:25coffeepotI'll be glad when I can stop tinkering with c intf stuff and get back to pure nim tbh :)
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11:15:38coffeepotfor eg; on the read I can do cast[int](buffer[0]) to get the correct int, but I'm not sure if that'd work for longer ints?
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11:15:42dom96let bufferPtr = sqlGetBuffer(); let floatData = cast[ptr float](bufferPtr)[]
11:15:44dom96I think
11:15:56coffeepotah ok that makes sense :)
11:16:08dom96Depends what ODBC returns really I guess
11:16:32dom96but do get a second opinion because my code may work, but it may still be wrong.
11:16:42dom96also, make sure to dealloc your stuff :P
11:16:51coffeepotodbc tells me the type as a standard c type so I can interpret it to a nim type
11:16:56coffeepotah how do I dealloc?
11:20:08coffeepotlooks like it's just dealloc :)
11:20:27coffeepotmany many thanks for your help dom96, i'll try it out and ask if I get any problems :)
11:20:45dom96^^ yep
11:20:47dom96np :)
11:21:29coffeepoti just found more info here for anyone else wondering http://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#types-reference-and-pointer-types
11:21:58coffeepotstoring a tuple in a buffer :)
11:22:22coffeepotgoing to assume that the floating point format of C is the same as nim :)
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11:46:54Araqcoffeepot: keep in mind that C's float is float32 in Nim and double is Nim's float
11:47:52Araqalso what dom suggests is essentially correct but I prefer ptr array[Arbitrary, float] over ptr float
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11:55:29coffeepotok Araq, thanks very much for the info :)
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11:56:53coffeepotalthough I'm not auite sure what you mean by Arbitary in this context
11:57:19Araqconst Arbitrary = 50_000 # Araq's way
11:57:22coffeepotquite
11:57:35coffeepotah ok :) cheers!
11:57:41Araqor you use .unchecked arrays but these are more cumbersome to use
11:57:52Araqmostly because system.nim lacks a type for it
11:57:54Araqbbs
11:58:22coffeepotI might post a code snippet when I feel it's working in case there's any gotchas I'm not aware of
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12:31:19Araqcoffeepot: interfacing with sql server is important, please put this stuff in Nimble as soon as it's useful enough
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12:43:54coffeepotAraq, yes for sure, when we have sql server support it makes business use of Nim much more feasible. Once I've got parameters sorted it'll probably be useful enough for most things and I'll put it in nimble. I'll probably be pestering you and others here about various things to make it more idiomatic :)
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12:44:42coffeepotfor instance atm to set a parameter I have "setParam[int](qry, "id", 4)" but I think that could be improved
12:45:29coffeepotI have already got it running queries and returning results, and managed to couple it with http server so that it returns the query results in json
12:46:01coffeepotI haven't replaced my main data storage object with the json one yet though
12:50:18coffeepotrunning at 550 lines of nim atm! Compared with 237 for mysql (although I'm not just returning strings in the results, got a composite object)
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15:58:05boopcan i use channels with async?
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16:02:41boopor.. hm
16:02:58boopi need to pass a message from one thread to another, the other thread is in a runForever() async loop running an ircbot
16:03:03boopwhat's the best way to do that?
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16:08:02dom96boop: async with threads isn't really supported at the minute
16:08:14boopcrud.
16:08:18dom96boop: what are you using multiple threads for?
16:08:18boopany other solutions?
16:08:36boopdom96: forking stuff away from a call from DM that needs to not block
16:08:43boopcan't get around it as far as I know :(
16:09:15dom96DM?
16:09:29boopsome silly little language/game engine :)
16:09:41boopit has a proc to call C dlls
16:09:54boopbut it needs to return control to DM
16:09:58dom96I guess you could create an async proc which checks the channel periodically
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16:10:10boophm
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16:10:21boopfeels a bit icky
16:10:45dom96proc pollChannel() {.async.} = while true: await sleepAsync(1000); if chan.peek > 0: ...
16:10:50dom96something like that
16:10:56*boop nod
16:11:04dom96yeah, that's the only way I can think of unfortunately.
16:11:07boopthat'll work i suppose
16:11:08boopthanks!
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16:14:30bluenoteanyone aware of the exact hash function behind !& and !$ in hashes?
16:14:55bluenoteI mean: Is it some famous hash function?
16:34:11flaviubluenote: Nope.
16:35:18flaviuAnd it needs to be changed, it's absolutely terrible.
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16:45:01bluenoteflaviu: oh, I didn't know, I thought it must be something fancy
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17:34:47CyberfunkHello. I'm trying to make HTTP requests with the net module. Here's my first attempt : https://pastee.org/6fw8k . But it doesn't work, I don't receive any response from Google. Could someone help me, please ?
17:40:05BlaXpiritCyberfunk, maybe u need some more \r\n
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17:41:14BlaXpiritnvm
17:41:21BlaXpiritit should probably be \r\l
17:42:01def-Cyberfunk: s.recv blocks until it received 1024 bytes
17:42:15CyberfunkIt works with \r\n\r\n. But as Google redirects to something like https://www.google.fr/webhp?gfe_rd=cr&amp;ei=F2pfVZbgIcXH8geBzYDoBw, I need to parse the response, looking for "Location: []"
17:42:30CyberfunkThanks!
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17:45:48Cyberfunk<p>Your client has issued a malformed or illegal request. <ins>That’s all we know.</ins>
17:46:31CyberfunkLooks like it's missing something...
17:46:42BlaXpiritno idea what 'Host: google.com' is supposed to mean
17:47:20BlaXpiritwell it's correct though, don't mind me
17:48:11CyberfunkYou're right, I just removed the line sending this and it works
17:48:25Cyberfunk"HTTP/1.1 200 OK"
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19:07:18CyberfunkHow do I get the len of a string, please ? Like with len() in Python
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19:11:09strcmp1has anyone worked on something similar to bundler in ruby land for nim? if you arent familiar, it can lock down packages and their dependencies to specific versions, so its like a snapshot of packages at a specific time, and supports installing packages relative to your apps root
19:14:25reactormonkstrcmp1, nope, because dependency management is a bitch
19:14:39reactormonkbut it should be easier with nimble because there's no global namespace
19:20:05fowlstrcmp1: we dont need it because nimble can live with multiple versions of the same package without blowing up
19:20:29AraqCyberfunk: use len()
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19:25:40strcmp1fowl, bundler lets you specify dependencies for a project as well as install them. i guess a shell script could work too
19:26:46fowlstrcmp1: nimble handles that
19:27:49strcmp1cool ill check it out
19:33:22reactormonkok, so I was misinformed.
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19:40:06Araqfowl: http://forum.nim-lang.org/t/1252
19:42:41fowlI'll reply
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19:45:04Araqty
19:46:45CyberfunkThanks Araq !
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19:49:01reactormonkfowl, I mean xeq would make a decent PR
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19:59:28reactormonkAraq, btw, where's the code that reads cache files, nimsuggest gets the correct results the first time after all
20:00:12Araqcompiler/modules.nim has the caching logic
20:00:34Araqit's based on CRC checksums (yes, flaviu, take that! ;-) )
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20:04:21reactormonknot even md5? ^^
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20:05:20Araqreactormonk: the compiler predates md5 (just kidding)
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20:17:21Jehan_Heh. :)
20:17:54AraqJehan_: I've never been more excited about a Nim enhancement proposal ... *wink*
20:18:19Jehan_Araq: I'll try to get it done this weekend, but I've been sick all week.
20:18:32Araqugh, bummer
20:19:08QuoraIs there a way to make nimble query a different URL for package lists?
20:19:22Jehan_Just a very nasty cold, but it did lay me out flat.
20:19:24def-Quora: yes, nimble update <list>
20:19:28Quoraah okay
20:19:44QuoraNim so far has been an amazing language for my needs. Thank you to all who work on it!
20:19:58Quorait's just the perfect balance between Python, Haskell and C
20:20:31Araqthanks, always nice to hear. :-)
20:20:57Quorathat idea for html templates to just be nim code
20:21:00Quorathat is just amazing
20:22:02Quoraso far though I've been doing as much of a clean MVC-style isolation as I can
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20:26:22Quorathe explicit discard though
20:26:42vikatondoes Nim's IRC module have some sort of sleep function when they send messages?
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20:27:05Quoravikaton: it has flood protection yes
20:27:34vikatonno wonder it took some time to send 10 messages at once :P
20:27:57def-Quora: you can make your proc {.discardable.}
20:28:09Quoradef-: I prefer the explicit "I am ignoring this"
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20:32:09AraqQuora: IMHO the explicit discard has improved the quality of error checking in the stdlib tremendously
20:32:57QuoraAraq: I bet!
20:33:15Araqnot sure what's not to like about this feature
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20:37:34fowlI think it should only be required for ref types
20:38:24Araqwhy? posix returns cint error codes
20:38:59fowlThey're safe to ignore
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20:42:12Araqwhat?
20:42:26Araqposix's return values are safe to ignore?
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20:52:45Jehan_For what it's worth, I'd really love for Scala to borrow Nim's discard feature. And I know I'm not the only person who thinks this way.
20:55:52fowlNobody actually checks return values
20:56:11Jehan_fowl: Umm, I do? If only for >= 0.
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21:00:56Matthias247Jehan_: f# has something similar with ignore
21:01:50zdsaexplicit discard is a must imo
21:02:02Jehan_Matthias247: it's not new. I had an "ignore (x: ANY)" routine in Eiffel decades ago, and I'm pretty sure I didn't come up with the idea myself. :)
21:02:26zdsajust today i had to debug someone code, and the error was
21:02:37Jehan_And Eiffel was the one language that arguably needed it the least, because functions with side effects were discouraged in Eiffel.
21:02:42zdsamerging 2 things, and forgetting to assign to a variable the resuult
21:02:55zdsaso no change on the merge
21:03:01Matthias247I need it there even more often - because I still try to mutate things with =
21:03:13Matthias247But I agree that it's a good feature in general
21:03:36zdsajust like explicit mutability imo
21:04:08zdsai just wish nim could inforce a big more immutability, even on ref types
21:04:11Jehan_It's really just a typechecking thing. Statements should be of type Unit.
21:04:14zdsabit more*
21:04:54Jehan_zdsa: That might be a nice thing to have, at least as an option.
21:05:16zdsaJehan_: for now i just try to never pass refs
21:05:21zdsalet the compiler optimize it away
21:05:54Jehan_zdsa: Well, as soon as you've got heap-allocated objects, you can't.
21:06:10Jehan_make do without refs, I mean.
21:06:47zdsawhat i mean is when i want a function to act on immutable, never accept a ref
21:06:55zdsaand pass it as ref[]
21:07:07zdsaim pretty sure its probably passing the pointer anyway
21:07:09zdsaor not
21:07:14zdsai should look at the compiled code
21:08:01Jehan_zdsa: It should, unless sizeof(ref[]) is small.
21:08:24Jehan_Returning objects can be a different story.
21:08:25zdsayes of course,
21:08:57Jehan_I still haven't worked out exactly when Nim uses a result pointer in the C code and when it doesn't.
21:09:16zdsai read that in nim if you do: var x = proc f()
21:09:25zdsaand you use the result variable
21:09:36zdsait just passes a pointer
21:10:26zdsabut yes its hard sometimes to know exactly what happens compared to be explicit with ptr or refs etc
21:10:51zdsafor now i mostly try to play with values and not try to optimize with ref
21:10:56fowlThere are byref bycopy pragmas to control that
21:11:05zdsao cool
21:12:26Jehan_zdsa: Not always. It usually does for types where it matters.
21:12:44Jehan_I'm just not sure what the heuristic is.
21:13:10boydgreenfieldAraq: I spent a bit of time digging into the inheritance + generics issue (#88, the oldest open issue!: https://github.com/Araq/Nim/issues/88). But, I don’t think I’m going to be able to fix it w/o a fairly massive investment in getting up to speed on the compiler code, which is… formidable. Is `zah` (assigned on Github) actively working on this, or is that stale? Still happy to help however I can.
21:13:23zdsayeh as long as it doesnt returns a 10k value array lol
21:14:03zdsai really like nim, if i wouldnt have found nim i would still be programming in rust :D
21:14:21zdsanim is more pragmatic imo
21:14:29zdsafor everyday programming
21:15:13zdsai just hope nim doesnt get too much OOP centric with crazy inheritance
21:15:47Jehan_zdsa: Heh, I'd like Nim to be just a tad more OOP crazy. :)
21:15:54Jehan_But I think Araq is on your side there. :)
21:16:09zdsai like the struct + functions on structs
21:16:11zdsawith traits
21:16:16zdsalike rust
21:16:21zdsaor like nim :)
21:16:38zdsabut the extra oop is ok right now
21:17:15fowlzdsa: you know about concepts right?
21:17:19zdsayes
21:17:25zdsathats why i said :like nim
21:17:35zdsatrait aka concepts
21:17:40zdsaim just used to the word
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21:18:40fowlzdsa: we can use a concept to generate a detached type that holds a vtable with the relevant functions
21:19:21Jehan_fowl: Yeah, that's something that I'd like to so.
21:19:25Jehan_see*
21:19:27zdsathe only major thing needed right now for oop i think is just a .privateConstructor.
21:19:33zdsafor the type constructor
21:19:34fowlJehan_: https://bitbucket.org/fowlsoft/interfaces/wiki/Home
21:20:26zdsabut its not that bad imo if you just always use a named constructor
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21:21:26golinuxerI'm new to nim. Are there any nim modules for resizing images like jpgs or pngs?
21:21:40Jehan_fowl: That's sort of what I'd been getting at, except with structural typing and less boilerplate.
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21:22:04zdsastructural typing is so much fun
21:22:13zdsahave you tried Elm?
21:22:19golinuxerElm?
21:22:35zdsahttp://elm-lang.org/
21:22:39fowlJehan_: the boilerplate is hidden behind a macro
21:22:42Jehan_zdsa: I've only looked at it, but the application domain is not something I need much.
21:22:59Jehan_zdsa: Structural typing is a lot older than that, though.
21:24:17golinuxerDoes anyone know of a nim package that supports resizing images like jpgs or pngs?
21:25:09zdsaJehan_: im not using it myself, but after playing with it, the structural syntax + the record update method is so much more practical than in haskell
21:25:17zdsastructural typing*
21:25:51zdsano need for lenses in nim because of it
21:26:09zdsaof course its not on the same level but i like the idea
21:26:25golinuxerThis IRC channel does not seem to be as friendly as Go langs. Wow.
21:26:26zdsain elm*
21:26:34Jehan_fowl: There's still more noise than needed in writing out the adapter rather than having the compiler inferring it.
21:27:04golinuxerNim seems to be an interesting language with no community.
21:27:26zdsagolinuxer: http://nim-lang.org/docs/lib.html
21:27:40zdsathere is probaly 20 of them
21:28:22fowlLol...nobody answered my question immediately. The community must not be friendly
21:28:55zdsadat trollin masterbait
21:29:01golinuxerWhat's the name of them?
21:29:08golinuxerI only see libpng
21:29:09zdsaany graphic library
21:29:10zdsadevil
21:29:12zdsasdl
21:29:13zdsasfml
21:29:15zdsaetc etc
21:29:25Jehan_golinuxer: It's a smaller community. There are fewer people who will know the answers off the top of their heads.
21:29:43golinuxerOkay, I see.
21:29:45zdsasearch for a popular C library that can do it
21:29:53zdsaand its probably wrapped in nim
21:30:30fowlJehan_: yea ideally it would be created on demand, I wrote this to figure out the logistics first (what do we need to ensure that it doesn't break, for ex if a varargs function is used to fulfill a behavior it will have a different function sig)
21:31:11zdsagolinuxer: Devil, FreeImage, sdl, sfml
21:31:16zdsathere is probably others
21:31:24golinuxerOkay. I noticed freeimage.
21:31:38golinuxerHave you actually used anyone of the listed?
21:31:48golinuxerWhich one is simplest to use?
21:31:58Jehan_fowl: The concept that I worked out for my own language basically had signature declarations that had their dispatch tables auto-inferred for this, plus a concept of views that allowed you to adapt a type to a different signature.
21:32:04zdsano idea im mostly doing that stuff in opengl ;)
21:32:20golinuxerk
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21:32:38Jehan_golinuxer: I haven't used any of them, image processing is not what I normally do.
21:33:00golinuxerI'm asking because I want to re-write one of my go programs--using nim instead.
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21:33:17zdsayou could even just call a command line from nim
21:33:27zdsaimagemagik is ez to use
21:33:28zdsaconvert rose.jpg -resize 50% rose.png
21:33:32dom96golinuxer: which library does your go program use?
21:34:10golinuxerimage/jpeg
21:34:19fowlJehan_: the macro would be a lot smaller if concepts just consisted of function signatures
21:34:33Jehan_fowl: Heh. :)
21:34:39golinuxerand ... github.com/nfnt/resize
21:35:06Jehan_fowl: I have also wondered if some of the old generic stuff at least isn't overkill.
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21:35:29golinuxerzdsa...the thing is that I want for the binary to have no dependencies
21:36:07Jehan_I mean, there may be applications, but it might be simpler to have a straightforward way to do concepts and then have the opportunity to attach metaprogramming checks if you need anything fancy.
21:36:49dom96golinuxer: I don't think there are any pure nim image resizing libraries unfortunately.
21:37:17dom96golinuxer: writing your own might be fun :)
21:38:00zdsagolinuxer: you might try to static link against some library, but im not sure which one would be ez to to do
21:38:00fowlJehan_: any time you do something with a generic argument, there can be a concept to constrain that behavior. That covers 99% of generics usage
21:38:12def-golinuxer: dependency-less libraries for this stuff would be really nice.
21:39:21Jehan_fowl: Yeah. Concepts as a constraint on types are for static dispatch, as a constraint on variables for dynamic dispatch.
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21:48:56golinuxerTrue, Def.
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21:57:12reactormonkAraq, btw, any reason why ref types aren't immutable by default?
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22:07:38zdsaref are immutable
22:07:44zdsabut what they point to arent
22:07:54Jehan_I think that's what reactormonk meant.
22:08:03Jehan_I.e. when passed as a non-var parameter.
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22:09:04Jehan_If I had to guess, one problem is that you then different ways of saying `r` is mutable and `r[]` is mutable.
22:09:12zdsayou might want to have a mutable ref
22:09:17zdsabut not whats under it
22:09:22Jehan_When `r[]` is always mutable, using `var` works for the other case.
22:09:30zdsaaka change the pointer value, not the valued pointed to
22:10:32zdsai would prefer to be able to choose both, aka immutable r and mutable r[]
22:10:41zdsaor mutable r and immutable r[]
22:10:58Jehan_zdsa: The thing is, at this point, the signature of a function can get really, really noisy.
22:11:04fowlSo const* and *const?
22:11:07Jehan_And the question is how much you actually gain.
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22:12:18zdsaf(var x: ref var T)
22:12:37zdsanot that noisy imo
22:13:23zdsaf(var x: ref T); f(x: ref var T); f(var x: ref var T)
22:14:10zdsait wouldnt be backward compatible tho
22:15:04zdsaf(var x: ref <something not var qualifer> T) would be backward compatible tho
22:16:50Jehan_zdsa: ref will usually be a part of the type, not an extra qualifier, and I think that's noisy.
22:17:04Jehan_it's also really easy to confuse x: var T and var x: T.
22:17:23zdsai think its pretty easy to diferenciate
22:18:19zdsaimo
22:18:19Jehan_In any event, I'm pretty sure Araq will not break almost every existing Nim module. :)
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22:18:44zdsalike i said, to be backward compatible, it would need to be a immutable qualifer
22:18:48zdsamutable by default
22:19:03zdsathat way everything stays the same with no qualifier
22:19:31Jehan_Or you'd do something different, such as having an {.immutable.} annotation for types. You'll just have to figure out how to do initialization.
22:19:59zdsathat would be too, but you have to do type gymnastic a lot
22:20:08Jehan_zdsa: Hmm?
22:20:25zdsato mutate something, then make it immutable again
22:20:44zdsaaka have 2 types, 1 mutable 1 immutable, then cast between the 2
22:21:09Jehan_zdsa: Something like distinct types and casting between them might work.
22:21:42Jehan_It'd be more about types that you don't really want to change after initialization. Granted, that's only part of the problem you want to solve.
22:22:09zdsayes, thats part of it
22:22:16zdsathe immutable would be good on the type itself
22:22:29zdsabut for actually passing refs to functions, while being immutable
22:22:52zdsawitouth having to make a new immutable type
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22:23:13zdsaor use the immutable pragma on the function too i guess?
22:23:20zdsaor parameter or whatever
22:25:00reactormonkzdsa, \n != ,
22:25:17zdsain php yes
22:25:25zdsalol
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22:26:19reactormonkJehan_, well yeah, you're correct. need to introduce some kind of deprecation warning...
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22:29:42zdsa',' is harder to type :(
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22:33:14Araqreactormonk: immutable refs is hard design problem. My favourite idea is to make 'func' deeply immutable for all its parameters
22:33:24Araqboydgreenfield: zah is not working on anything
22:33:32reactormonkAraq, so for refs too? neat idea.
22:33:47reactormonkbut then how do you propagate the immutability to procs being called by the func?
22:33:57Araqyou don't
22:34:10boydgreenfieldAraq: Got it. Is there anyone else that’s been helping out w/ compiler stuff? Happy to do some other gruntwork-like fix in exchange… :)
22:34:12Araqyou rather have all your procs renamed to 'func' by then
22:34:54Araqboydgreenfield: activity is rather low afaict, will get back to the heavy bugfixing in a couple of days though
22:35:17reactormonkAraq, so a func calling a proc is what, a warning?
22:35:21reactormonkor a compiler error
22:35:39Araqdunno, usual design is: warning first, later error
22:36:37Araqboydgreenfield: generic type parametrization in combination with subtyping has some subtle issues, you should read some papers/books about this
22:36:45boydgreenfieldAraq: OK, sounds good. Sorry I couldn’t knock this one down myself.
22:37:47boydgreenfieldAraq: Hmm – well maybe it’s overkill for what I need. The alternative was variant types (case kind of…), which is just inelegant because then you have to check the case all over the place as the typed object field needs to have a different field name in each variant
22:37:47Araqboydgreenfield: why is it so important for you? usually you either use generics or inheritance
22:37:52boydgreenfield(e.g., store, store_int32)
22:38:25AraqI don't think that's a tough problem to abstract over via templates
22:39:13boydgreenfieldAraq: I have a distributed store that’s set up to behave in a variety of different ways (e.g., count cumulative data sent to it, reduce it across some graph, etc., etc.) – which I had done with inheritance and they just were identical except for a single `reduce` proc. Unfortunately, in extending it some of them need to store different types (e.g., more than a seq[int]).
22:39:54boydgreenfieldI’ll have to take a look back at some templates for this – I haven’t used them extensively for actual type and proc declarations
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22:42:36boydgreenfieldAraq: Any specific template examples / other places you’d recommend looking at for best practices here?
22:43:26boydgreenfield(I want to have, e.g., a ReduceMethod1Store[int32] and a ReduceMethod2Store[int64], etc.)
22:44:08Araqsounds to me you want the specialization of templates/generics rather than subtyping, but I have no concrete suggestions
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22:52:39boydgreenfieldAraq: Ok, I’ll look into that.
22:59:12onionhammerhm weird. nim is sigsegving while compiling parseutils
23:00:15onionhammeroop
23:00:23onionhammeraccidentally up+entered
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23:39:30jackvis it ok to include C files in nimble packages? (e.g. for wrapped libraries)
23:40:21fowljackv, it should work, unless you're asking if its morally ok?
23:40:47fowlmorally it should also fine
23:40:48jackvnah, it's a BSD licensed lib, I think it's morally ok
23:57:58jackvalso, is it frowned upon to not include the Requires: "nim >= whatever"?
23:58:16Araqyeah pretty much given Nim's development
23:59:04jackvok