<<24-03-2013>>

00:24:28*q66 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
00:26:51*q66 joined #nimrod
00:43:57*zahary quit (Quit: Leaving.)
01:23:41fowl what happened to the gb emulator in tests/manyloc?
01:33:31*Zerathul_ joined #nimrod
01:35:51*Zerathul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
01:35:57*Zerathul_ is now known as Zerathul
02:07:46*q66 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
02:15:30reactormonkAraq, so no JS fixing :-(
02:17:38*Zerathul quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931])
03:52:24reactormonkAraq, and if you want that coin, gimme a wallet id
05:41:01*gour joined #nimrod
06:48:45*Trixar_za is now known as Trix[a]r_za
07:20:24*xcombelle joined #nimrod
08:11:23*xcombelle quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:13:57*zahary joined #nimrod
10:40:00dom96fowl: I deleted it.
11:40:04*q66 joined #nimrod
12:14:26NimBotAraq/Nimrod db88c4c Araq [+2 ±3 -0]: fixes #376
12:14:26NimBotAraq/Nimrod a93a252 Araq [+0 ±4 -5]: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:Araq/Nimrod
14:16:25*exhu joined #nimrod
14:18:22exhuomg, http://suckless.org/sucks
14:23:14exhu"Write the most useful unix userland commands in the new Go language created by Google to form a robust base for future Unix-like userlands that do not suffer from the vulnerabilities that are common in C or C++ code.", the go language got so much hype already?
14:24:31dom96yep, it's irritating isn't it?
14:24:32gourgo { hype: overflow; }
14:31:22gourerlang is not at all, afaict, speed daemon, but it has wx bindings :-/
14:35:02exhui still can't make myself finish writing that damn macros in nimrod...
14:35:58exhuprocrastination is the root of all evil -)
14:44:05gourexhu: from which language(s) you've arrived to nimrod?
14:44:18exhui get "Error: invalid visibility: '*'" for type
14:44:18exhu TDirEntryDesc* = tuple inside dumpTree
14:44:48exhugour, i earn my living as c++ progrm
14:45:19gourexhu: ohh, so lookingo for adequate replacement ;)
14:46:01exhugour, yes, at least for hobby projects and tools
14:46:33gourexhu: does your hobby projects/tools involve gui?
14:49:10exhugour, i used fltk for gui once for a quick and dirty game level editor -)
14:49:41gourexhu: what would you use in nimrod?
14:50:01exhuafter finishing db app in nimrod i plan to write a gui using opengl, i like allegro5 c library, probably would write some binding for nimrod to use it.
14:50:28gourexhu: have you considered D?
14:50:36exhugour, it seems there's no better alternative than gtk for nimrod now
14:51:17exhugour, i tried D several times, it changed rapidly and i become bored.
14:51:24gouryep, and gtk is seemingly becoming linux-only lib
14:52:44exhugour, there's no good gui library for all needs available, you either link to a monster qt or tiny fltk, and they're all c++
14:53:29gourexhu: heh..problem is they're c++ and i do not want to return to it
14:53:51exhuit's all about hardware acceleration nowadays, so i don't feel like writing a common gui library.
14:54:25exhufltk's c++ is minimalistic
14:55:26exhubut fltk is rather limited too
14:55:35gourif there would be nimrod bindings for ir and/or some interest...it seems that desktop apps is not nimrod's niche
14:56:30exhuc++ bindings are painfully depressing to write
14:56:50*gour nods...even with swig
14:57:35exhui'd better write gui part in c++
14:57:54exhuand the logic in nimrod
14:58:15gourbut by glueing the two, one loses nimrod's type-safety
14:59:23gourin that case i could use python's gui + nimrod or some other lang as well...majority of development is going towards web these days :-(
14:59:33*Trix[a]r_za is now known as Trixar_za
15:01:42exhuwhat gui do you need FOR?
15:04:46exhugour, the thing is that our team started developing their own opengl gui, then they thought that what they have written sucks and prevents the team from writing a good visual tool. they decided to rewrite it using Qt. And know what, the gui they designed still sucks, the app crashes and now
15:05:10exhuit required a kingsize bloated gui library, the qt, which takes a day to compile...
15:07:19exhugour, and what more, qt uses native widgets and so the app looks different on win and mac, and on win there's some problems with default listbox control that they cannot fix, because they use Qt and qt uses system controls -)
15:08:43Trixar_zaAnd here I was going to learn C++ just so I could use Qt
15:08:59exhuTrixar_za, don't use qt -)
15:09:36Trixar_zaYeah, they have the typical Nokia mentality
15:09:42gourexhu: i thought that wx is the only one using native widgets...does qt use native on mac as well?
15:09:48Trixar_zaAs in, shoot ourselves in the financial foot mentality
15:09:57exhuTrixar_za, there're a lot of c++ toolkits around, try FOX, FLTK, wx
15:10:26exhuTrixar_za, FLTK is the least pita to use and learn.
15:10:28Trixar_zaI just need something that ports lightly to Windows or Linux (maybe MacOs)
15:11:21gourexhu: have you ever worked a bit with Tk? newer versions seems to look better
15:11:49gourin C-arena, there is EFL...
15:12:04exhugour, i used Tk in python, at some moment it became painful and slow, and i abandoned
15:12:30exhugour, EFL is toooo modular, i could not figure it out how to use and from what to start
15:12:40gouri see
15:13:10Trixar_zaMostly to port https://github.com/Trixarian/pywse away from python. Webkit is heavy enough without python adding to that :/
15:13:18Trixar_zaNot to even mention GTK...
15:13:48gourIUP is not i18n ready...
15:14:20gourthis really sucks...it looks as we'd have to use html5
15:16:15exhugour, i'm sick and tired of html5 era, where even high-end cpus get overloaded on sites.
15:17:40exhugour, fltk is utf8-friendly
15:18:01exhugour, but not with right-to-left languages.
15:18:02gouri agree...otoh, the other option could be to use lazarus/fpc despite all of its shortcomings
15:18:35gourexhu: fltk might be nice, but i do not want to code in c++ :-)
15:18:47exhugour, what is the project you need gui for?
15:19:21gourexhu: something like http://saravali.de/screenshots.html
15:19:49exhuTrixar_za, i don't understand, you still need to retain webkit?
15:20:55exhugour, be brave, use opengl and write your own gui ;)
15:21:46gourexhu: well, time-factor...i hardly have time to woron on this project, so expect to have infrastructure ready...no time for pioneering work
15:21:56gour*work on
15:22:43exhugour, use Allegro5 (need some bindings, because it in C) to create window and draw using the 2d facilities (2d primitives, ttf fonts) it provides.
15:22:46Trixar_zaexhu: Actually, I just need a way to wrap the web function - like a HTML5 container app
15:23:23dom96gour: Ever considered using whatever Windows/Linux/Mac OS X provides for UI's?
15:23:46gourexhu: but that would be quite low-level, no common ui elements, menus, tree-list, button etc., right?
15:23:47dom96Will probably be lots of work too. But advantage would be no dependencies, and a tailored look to each system.
15:24:22gourdom96: what do you mean? native controls for each OS?
15:24:27dom96gour: yes.
15:24:44gourdom96: it looks as writing 3 apps instead of one :-)
15:25:04dom96For Linux you would be using GTK anyway, so you could start with that and have a temporary cross platform UI. You could then slowly use native widgets on other OSs
15:25:27gouri'd prefer multi-platform kit so that other can chime in and tailor to mac/win if they want
15:25:39exhugour, http://lw-gui.sourceforge.net/misc/a5-gui-addon.html
15:28:25gourotexit's pre-alpha and looks quite dead
15:28:33gourexhu: ^^
15:30:08gourdom96: you'll continue working on nimrod's gtk(2)?
15:30:23dom96gour: of course. Aporia depends on it.
15:30:39gourwhat about gtk3?
15:30:52dom96someday maybe.
15:30:57gourok
15:31:40dom96gour: You should join GIMPNet/#gtk+ and tell them to start releasing Windows binaries again :P
15:31:43gourdom96: you're the only nimrod user working on gui app, atm?
15:31:54dom96As far as I know, yes.
15:32:08exhugour, sorry, i'm discovering this topic right now on, so i didn't knew it's dead
15:32:24gourdom96: heh, mac port is also not in the best shape
15:32:31gour(man-wise)
15:32:32exhugour, this looks more interesting http://chinbilly.blogspot.com/2011/10/ui-for-allegro-5.html
15:33:26gouryeah, that looks better
15:33:48exhugour, but it's in c++ :-/
15:34:30gourahh...
15:35:35gourall major toolkits (except gtk) are in C++, so any language aiming as potential replacement should take this into consideratiom, imho
15:36:05gourwithout 'batteries', not many people will migrate
15:37:10dom96I doubt Ruby/Python/Rust/Go/D have any better ways to create C++ bindings.
15:38:15gourwell, python has everything...
15:38:47dom96Maybe because people simply write the bindings instead of discussing these issues to death :P
15:38:50gourrust is too immature...ruby guis mostly sucks...D is only gtk, no idea about Go
15:39:55gourdom96: there are devs writing 'cause people write gui apps in python
15:40:30exhusomeone has to pioneer gui in nimrod
15:40:48gourwxpython was done via swig and now both wx&qtpython have SIP
15:41:08gourexhu: yes, but it seems that nimrod is not targetting/attracting such users
15:41:49dom96I seem to be the only one actually trying to let people know about the language. At least on reddit.
15:42:40*gour cannot advertise it much without actually using it
15:42:43exhugour, i've written gui libraries in the time of ms-dos, then wrapping win32 api, so i'm full of this stuff -)
15:43:04gourexhu: heh, another candidate for web/cloud :-)
15:43:32gourms-dos gui tiems were nice
15:43:37gour*times
15:43:56gourturbopascal, turboC...zortech c++...
15:44:29exhugour, what makes me unwilling to write a traditional gui lib is the diversity of platforms i work on, i.e. win32, mac, linux.
15:44:47gourexhu: anything wrong with e.g. wx?
15:45:07exhugour, in times of win98 it was a piece of cake -- wrap win32 api and that's it.
15:45:17Araqgour: it's as if you regularly clear all of your memory
15:45:23*gour was using os2 at that time
15:45:24Araqstop doing that please
15:45:32Araqand once again:
15:45:46Araqa) Nimrod already binds better to C++ than almost anything else
15:46:04Araqb) we have "claro" that somebody could help with
15:46:18Araqc) etc. etc. etc. this has all been discussed to death!
15:46:41exhuAraq, procrastination is the root of that kind of evil :)
15:47:25gourAraq: only me?
15:48:04exhuit's seems as we are too old here =)
15:48:28gourexhu: maybe...time to go elsewhere
15:49:04Araqit's only you who spreads FUD like "it seems that desktop apps is not nimrod's niche"
15:49:26gourok. thanks
15:49:30*gour left #nimrod ("WeeChat 0.4.0")
15:49:36Araqand I've yet to receive a single bug report from you ...
15:50:48dom96And now the channel will go back to its silence.
15:51:54AraqI won't apogolize
15:52:26exhuAraq, there's a problem i need your help to solve, http://forum.nimrod-code.org/t/137
15:55:57Araqexhu: edit macros.nim:289
15:56:10Araqadd an {.immediate.} to the macro
15:56:22Araqand try again please
15:56:58exhu"expectKind" proc?
15:57:11Araqsorry, typo
15:57:17Araqline 389
15:58:14exhuAraq, now it works, thanks
15:58:41Araqwell we need an immediate and a non-immediate version of this macro ...
16:01:12*q66 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
16:03:19Araqand we need some naming convention to distinguish them ...
16:06:26*q66 joined #nimrod
16:07:21Araqexhu: procrastination is one thing; constantly talking about the same (and only talking!) is another
16:23:56*Trixar_za is now known as Trix[a]r_za
16:24:37Araqso ... how about dumpTreeImm() for the immediate version?
16:26:28exhuAraq, dumpTreeImm would be fine
16:26:54Araqdunno, 'Imm' as a suffix is a bit ugly
16:27:28Araqbut then we already have lots of pre- and suffixes in the language ...
16:28:03exhudumpTreeImmediate would be fine too with autocompletion turned on -)
16:28:50Araqmaybe but many people still try to program with notepad
16:28:52exhuit's still no "org.nimrod.core.macros.dumpTreeImmediateMacro" =)
16:35:46Araqdom96: the compiler itself uses 'recvLine' ... is the new 'readLine' ready?
16:35:56dom96Araq: yes
16:36:04dom96I think.
16:36:11dom9680% sure. :P
16:56:21*xcombelle joined #nimrod
17:01:21*zahary quit (Quit: Leaving.)
17:02:00*Trix[a]r_za is now known as Trixar_za
18:21:59*xcombelle quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
18:23:05Araqexhu: what should we answer the new guy on the forum? :-)
18:23:40Araq"it's easy to build lua as a static library and patch the stdlib to use that instead of a DLL?"
18:26:23dom96Mention embedding.
18:26:47exhuAraq, nimrod macros and templates would potentially simplify writing bindings for lua
18:27:04Araqexhu: we already have bindings for lua ...
18:27:06exhui mean export nimrod functions to lua
18:27:26Araqah yeah
18:28:25exhuwriting a native function to lua script engine is such a huge pile of code, checks etc per every function, that having a template feature is a must.
18:28:47Araqdamn I should have finished my attempts to export the Nimrod interpreter that's napping in the compiler ...
18:29:49exhuAraq, current lua bindings work only with lua as a dll, this guy wants static linking.
18:30:10Araqyeah I noticed :P
18:30:57Araqit's pretty easy to change though
18:31:17exhuAraq, btw i criticized that from the start -))) i prefer to link against libs so that dependencies are clear when you type "ldd myprogram"
18:31:54Araqexhu: dynamic linking via dlym seemed like a good idea back in those days :P
18:32:05Araq*dlsym
18:32:52AraqI agree we need to do something about it
18:32:54dom96Wouldn't it be possible for all wrappers to support a -d:static, or something like that?
18:33:12Araqyeah that was my plan too
18:33:21dom96of course you might want to keep some dynamically linked and some not
18:33:23Araqbut now maybe the compiler should support that
18:33:44Araqthe dynlib stuff is very declarative so it's not hard to change
18:33:48dom96import wrapper {.static.} :P
18:34:25Araqoh and for opengl you of course what the crazy dynamic binding
18:34:30Araq*want
18:34:31exhuAraq, you should not take it as static only, some libs require tons of other dynamic libs and it's just easier to write some binding functions and let pkg-config pass all the libraries.
18:35:42Araqwell we need a per module switch that affects dynlib's semantics
18:35:57Araqer no
18:36:26Araqa per project configuration option that can affect dynlib in *some* modules ...
18:36:31dom96The choice should be made during compilation
18:36:38dom96yes
18:36:39Araqdom96: yeah
18:37:34exhuAraq, opengl can be painful to use when i link against a c game framework that already loaded extensions and opengl dlls
18:37:57*xcombelle joined #nimrod
18:37:57Araqexhu: how so? :-(
18:38:14Araqthe compiler already has hacks just for the opengl wrapper ...
18:38:30Araqand I'm very proud of my solution :P
18:38:38Araqso don't tell me it doesn't work
18:38:45exhuAraq, i have not studied yet how the bindings look like now, so will speak about it some months later when i touch allegro5 -)
18:40:00exhuAraq, i mean if the allegro library initializes opengl for me, we can have several copies of opengl loaded per single application. maybe i'm wrong.
18:41:04Araqmaybe you are, maybe you're not
18:41:18AraqI would guess that it works just fine :P
18:42:52Araqso ... a per project override option for dynlib ... sounds easy to do
18:43:01*Araq adds it to his todo.txt
18:43:35exhuAraq, that way of bindings separation between "load library dynamically" (current implementation) vs "load library by passing its name to the linker" (it can be static or dynamic) should be stated somewhere
18:44:08Araqit's documented in nimrodc.html iirc
19:13:38*Trixar_za is now known as Trix[a]r_za
20:00:43*fowl quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
20:14:07*gradha joined #nimrod
20:15:41*fowl joined #nimrod
20:22:47*xcombelle quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
20:41:32*AmatCoder joined #nimrod
20:51:13gradhanimforum needs a logo, maybe two talking crowns exchanging asm codes?
20:52:06Araqoh hi gradha
20:52:23gradhahi Araq
20:53:05gradhaI believe two sunsets exchanging code would be too subtle
20:53:43Araqtwo anythings exchanging something sounds pervasive
20:54:04Araq*perverted
20:54:22gradhato reflect realistically the current status of nimrod's popularity a crown talking to a wall could do
20:54:45dom96I think what the forum needs is a tour feature, where an image of a floating Araq's head will guide you through the website :P
20:55:17gradhathat's crazy talk, we don't even know if Araq has a head at all, it's just an AI bot
20:55:36dom96True, how rude of me to assume such things.
20:55:50gradhasurely implemented in like 85% C
20:56:10Araqactually I'm only an enormous brain
20:56:27dom96gradha: Its only goal to reprogram itself in a language it creates.
20:56:50dom96Hrm, this would make a good sci-fi story.
20:57:32Araqthat revitalizes unless killed by dark templar's psionic energies
20:58:20gradhaoh, yeah, SC2, have you played it? I tried it twice and haven't touched it since, I don't like it
21:00:31Araqyeah I played it through, it's not bad
21:03:08gradhaI'm sure it's fun and enjoyable, but I didn't like you are being treated as a moron: "hey, we know it's 99% likely you played the previous SC, but look, if you click this thingy called a mouse, stuff happens!"
21:03:56gradhato me it's the perfect example of poor documentation since it misses the target user base and wastes resources on silly stuff
21:10:40Araqyeah that's quite absurd but it's no reason to stop playing :P
21:12:53gradhaI'll try again drunk, that seems to smooth things out for nearly everything
21:21:04Araqgradha: turns out the "procvar" checking is quite annoying to get right in the compiler ...
21:21:55gradhawhat's this procvar checking?
21:22:21Araqyour favorite feature: 'xyz' cannot be passed to a procvar
21:22:57gradhacan't even remember creating a github issue for that
21:23:35Araqyeah well it's not a bug
21:23:50Araqit turns out the implementation is buggy
21:28:29gradhatalking about bugs, I was meaning to bug zahary about stuff
21:28:29gradhacompiling nimforum is cool to serve pages until you realize you need to recompile all to change a .tmpl file
21:28:29Araqit never was a problem for me when developing it
21:28:54gradhait's slow for retouching HTML and seeing how it works, of course the proper way would be to do all prototyping in pure html and then apply changes to source code
21:29:33AraqI dunno you can also easily reload most parts of the template at runtime
21:29:46gradhaoh, can you?
21:29:51Araqyeah sure
21:30:15gradhaI thought you need to "nimrod c forum.nim" to see changes made in included .tmpl files
21:30:15Araqyou have to do it yourself though
21:31:01Araqyeah but I can imagine $htmlbody variables that are passed to the generator and that you readFile()
21:32:01Araqit's mostly irrelevant though as playing with the CSS for instance does not require recompilations if you keep it separately
21:32:34gradhait's all your fault, spoiling people by providing a fast compiler
21:32:50Araqthanks :-)
21:33:24gradhawill you put a sleep(100) somewhere in the compiler for v1.0?
21:33:50Araqthe real problem is that you have no control flow in (strutils|strtabs).%
21:34:01Araqand so the .tmpl solution is necessary
21:34:21Araqbut that doesn't mean you can't combine these things easily :P
21:35:55*exhu quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
21:46:19dom96hrm, there seems to be a lot of new languages mentioned in r/programming
21:48:24gradhaany mentions about boxer?
21:51:42dom96never heard of it
21:53:42gradhaneither did I http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4695
21:55:51gradhait's visual so it can't be a "real men" programming language either http://dewey.soe.berkeley.edu/boxer/
22:00:17gradhathat reminds me, how did the donglegate end up? any more heads did roll?
22:01:28dom96That girl lost her job.
22:01:37dom96That's about all i've heard.
22:01:46gradhayou mean, she can't troll any more on the internet?
22:03:05gradhaI remember some ancient times were people would apologize and would not be fired over stupid things
22:04:05dom96I really wonder where she's going to work now.
22:05:32Araqdom96: why? the world is full of jobs for the easily offended ...
22:06:13dom96Well her job title was "Developer Evangelist"
22:06:26dom96That means she's meant to bring developers together, or something.
22:08:15gradhacareful dom96, that's starting to sound like some sexual thing, a ban is on its way
22:13:21dom96But... Nimrod is my life!
22:15:47gradhahmm... bringing developers together... never imagined stackoverflow is an online dating site under the disguise of some support forum
22:25:57gradhaawesome youtube description: THIS VIDEO IS NOT INTENDED FOR COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT
22:26:35Araqhttp://areyouabrogrammer.com/
22:26:54Araqmy score: -30
22:27:04Araqso it should be pretty easy to beat :P
22:27:43gradhaahaha, "hairy", I'm chewbacca
22:30:03gradhameh, no kpop for music?
22:30:17gradhaI'll go with emo then
22:30:18Araqwhat's wrong with "metal"?
22:30:31gradhahahaha, "You gotta be kidding"
22:31:00gradhametal is sometimes too noisy
22:31:46gradhaBQ -175, I'm an epic nerd
22:32:18dom96-70
22:32:32Araqwell he didn't believe me I can do algorithms too
22:38:15Araqping reactormonk
22:49:04*gradha quit (Quit: bbl, have youtube videos to watch)
22:52:14reactormonkAraq, pong
22:52:56Araqreactormonk: tried the latest JS codegen?
22:53:07reactormonkAraq, nope
22:53:17Araqreactormonk: please do it
22:55:19reactormonkAraq, it still works, what should I see?
22:56:56Araqwell the first part of closure support is done
22:57:04Araqaka the nested procs
22:57:08reactormonkcool
22:57:39Araqthe capturing is still not by-copy
22:57:46Araqbut otherwise it should work
22:58:15reactormonkrevert the compiler file in https://github.com/Tass/Nimrod/commit/a09bea1cd88f2cb0aedcea47d9535256e9213868 and see if it works
22:58:30reactormonkNeed to write some scala as homework. :-/
23:00:00Araqreactormonk: ugh don't
23:00:07Araqthat's a closure at compiletime
23:00:16Araqstill not implemented properly
23:11:13*Boscop quit (Disconnected by services)
23:11:15*Boscop joined #nimrod
23:13:20*mal``` joined #nimrod
23:14:50*mal`` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
23:15:55*comex` joined #nimrod
23:20:34*JStoker quit (*.net *.split)
23:23:27reactormonkAraq, you marked the issue as fixed
23:23:47*comex quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
23:26:02Araqreactormonk: yeah ... because it is :P
23:27:08*AmatCoder quit (Quit: Leaving)
23:28:18reactormonkso not implemented properly but marked as fixed?
23:29:04Araqit's no JS specific bug :P
23:29:20Araqand the example code works as expected
23:35:47*XAMPP_ joined #nimrod
23:36:04reactormonkcool
23:36:34*XAMPP quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
23:37:54*JStoker joined #nimrod
23:41:18*fowl_ joined #nimrod
23:49:13*Boscop quit (Disconnected by services)
23:49:13*Boscop joined #nimrod
23:53:04*fowl quit (*.net *.split)