<< 25-12-2013 >>
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01:04:06BitPuffinwe should have zmq bindings for nimrod if we don't already
01:08:58psquidhttp://build.nimrod-lang.org/docs/zmq.html
01:09:08psquid:P
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09:34:58Araqhey BitPuffin, merry christmas
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09:51:20dom96_andHo ho ho
09:51:26dom96_and Merry christmas
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09:54:00gradhaI can't quite picture dom96 with a white beard
09:54:26Araqhey gradha merry christmas
09:54:41gradhamerry christmas Araq
09:55:03dom96_andNot even a fake one?
09:55:39gradhafake, sure
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09:59:10gradhaoh, right, we had to test devel branch
10:02:18gradhaAraq: are you using now git-flow or is devel just another manual branch?
10:02:47Araqwell I don't know what git-flow is
10:03:04Araqdevel now has all the juice
10:03:12gradhaok
10:03:20Araqand I plan to merge devel into master and call it 0.9.4
10:05:32gradhagit-flow is a set of scripts to add bureaucracy to git, by default creates a devel branch for unstable work, and master is left for stable releases
10:09:16gradhais appname.nimrod.cfg the standard pattern for configuration files?
10:12:12gradhait doesn't fit well for splitFile, or other tools to recognise, so you need special cases in file extension loops
10:12:52gradhamight be worth going for nimrod_cfg, nimcfg, nimrodCfg, nimrod_is_superb_cfg, or similar
10:14:17Araqno
10:14:25Araqpeople want the '.' everywhere
10:14:33Araqit's the very definition of being modern
10:14:48Araqso it's appname.nimrod.cfg and will stay this way
10:14:49gradhayeah, xmas.jpeg.exe FTW
10:14:54dom96_andHell yeah
10:15:40gradhacan't fight with modern, you could have said it's for the DLL
10:15:57Araqlol
10:17:57Araqalso aporia and other tools already use .nimrod.cfg to determine the project file
10:25:28gradhadom96: IIRC you didn't want to add a switch to babel to specify a different installation path, right?
10:26:24gradhadom96_and: ah, you might not get notified through the other nick
10:27:10dom96_andIt should be set in some config file
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10:36:26gradhadom96_and: you changed babel structure, now the compilation instructions are stale
10:37:22dom96_andFix them then :p
10:37:55dom96_andAraq: I was able to reproduce the "out of order output" problem using my tester in babel
10:38:22dom96_and (that is the problem related to osproc)
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10:39:44Araqdom96_and: looks like a job for zielmicha-cloud
10:39:55Araqhe is working on osproc
10:40:20dom96_andAwesome. He's probably busy with Christmas.
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13:53:16NimBotAraq/Nimrod devel 7911b26 Araq [+2 ±4 -0]: templates can access hidden fields
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17:27:29gradhastuff on devel seems to compile
17:39:32dom96Any feature/bug fix requests before I release babel 0.1?
17:39:45gradhahow about versioning?
17:40:07gradhaI've had 0.1 for ages, yet you are still to release it
17:40:22dom96I blame the matrix.
17:40:52dom96Not only do I need to make babel work in the matrix I also must patch any glitches in the matrix. It's a never ending battle.
17:42:41gradhainteresting, aporia doesn't compile with devel, but it fails somewhere else
17:42:50gradhaprocesses.nim(329, 30) Info: instantiation from here
17:42:50gradhaprocesses.nim(300, 6) Error: identifier expected, but found '(event|event)'
17:43:01gradhaanother matrix glitch?
17:43:21dom96yes, report it to the architect.
17:44:35gradhaI've looked up the "spawn multiple processes + read their output" and the accepted unix solution is to not use pipes but named pipes
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17:45:12gradhaalso, you can't use select if you expect to reuse identifiers, so you can't select on a pool of workers
17:45:32gradhalooks like select has different behaviour when a child file descriptor is closed, which involves you detecting the platform and working around it
17:45:46gradhapresumably still possible, but people resort to polling
17:47:21gradhaok, that's weird, my aporia checkout still crashes, but babel using aporia#head doesn't
17:47:49dom96babel compiles with -d:release by default
17:47:57dom96perhaps that is the reason
17:48:09gradhaindeed
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17:48:56gradhathere's nomention of this in the docs, though
17:49:07dom96hrm, indeed
18:01:32gradhaso when I compile aporia and get a stack trace, then attempt to compile again, and get a different stack trace, that's all good, right?
18:01:51gradhaalso the first attempt crashes on gc.nim(165) asgnRefNoCycle
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18:02:14dom96You aren't experiencing deja vu? Perhaps the same cat meowing right in front of you twice.
18:02:26gradhaI can pastebin you the console output
18:03:00dom96I bet it's a corruption and they never make sense.
18:03:35gradhaI'm sure Araq will figure out http://pastebin.com/9J4UGcqk
18:05:55gradhadidn't have aporia issues on windows in debug mode?
18:34:13dom96yes, but that was fixed.
18:41:07EXetoCsup dudes
18:42:07dom96ooh, hacker news is all christmassy
18:48:35EXetoCoh yeah look at that
18:49:42EXetoCand they have announced 0ad a15 there
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19:26:28dom96hey BitPuffin
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19:50:31EXetoCWHAT UP
19:51:51dom96doctor who is on
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20:09:45OrionPKMmeh doctor who
20:10:38EXetoCaight
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20:14:19exhuhi guys, is there anyone with access to nimrod-code?
20:14:21exhuhttps://github.com/nimrod-code/cairo/issues/1
20:14:52exhui'm too lazy to do clone and pull requests -)
20:16:10exhuand merry xmas!
20:18:41OrionPKMbest time of the year 4 coding
20:18:43OrionPKM:P
20:20:07exhuyes, nice to have a holiday in the middle of the week, but tomorrow three days of work begin...
20:20:59OrionPKMmaybe for you
20:22:06exhuOrionPKM, do you have long national holidays?
20:22:11OrionPKMno
20:22:14OrionPKMi just have a lot of PTO
20:22:45gcrHey there, is anyone using the opengl/opengl.nim wrapper? Mine crashes with segmentation fault every time I call 'glViewport' on Arch linux but it works fine with the older opengl/gl wrapper.
20:23:19exhuOrionPKM, what is PTO? sick list or a vacation?
20:23:35OrionPKMpersonal time off
20:23:49OrionPKMpaid time off
20:23:53OrionPKMsorry
20:24:07OrionPKMit's sick/vacation
20:24:19OrionPKMI get 4 weeks a year
20:24:49OrionPKMsorry gcr, I haven't used it
20:25:19gcraha! I fixed my problem: you have to call loadExtensions() before you do anything, or else your functions are just null pointers
20:25:23dom96gcr: do you call loadExten-- yeah :P
20:25:33gcrthanks guys! nimrod is fun :)
20:26:18OrionPKMcool, glad you figured it out
20:28:00exhuOrionPKM, i have a 4 weeks vacation per year which can be used as 2 weeks fist then later 1 + 1, and sick leaves are paid but do not affect the vacation. So PTO looks strange.
20:28:49OrionPKMwhere are you from?
20:29:00exhubelarus (exUSSR)
20:29:46OrionPKMah, dont you guys have a dictator?
20:30:47exhuOrionPKM, yes we have, but it's not the main source of trouble here -)
20:30:52OrionPKMhehe
20:32:57exhuOrionPKM, we have laws that work against common people, in favour of the ruling government class only :(
20:33:35OrionPKMman
20:33:41OrionPKMharsh
20:35:57exhuOrionPKM, and where are you from?
20:36:37OrionPKMUS
20:38:08exhuOrionPKM, im suprised you've heard of the dictator and belarus -)
20:38:18OrionPKMlol
20:38:22OrionPKMbecause im american?
20:38:34OrionPKMwe have maps here too
20:40:56exhuOrionPKM, not all europeans know about the smaller countries around, and america is so far away. i personally can't remember neither the united states nor the south america countries.
20:41:22OrionPKMah, thats okay
20:41:22exhuOrionPKM, US names i mean
20:41:28OrionPKMthe states, yeah
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20:49:57exhuexperimenting with cairo bindings for nimrod today, studying cairo and it's so easy to use, just like it is in python
20:51:24exhuand with babel nimrod is very easy to start and be efficient
20:53:26dom96that's good to hear :)
20:57:16exhudom96, the only thing i don't like about babel is the hidden directory naming ".babel" -)
20:58:06Araqhi exhu welcome back
20:58:14Araqhi gcr welcome
20:58:28gcrHey there
20:58:30exhudom96, and that the name "babel" is already used for a linux package
20:58:40Araqexhu: the 'devel' branch supports that a template refers to a hidden field
20:58:49Araqimplemented it today
20:59:08dom96hrm, that could be a problem.
20:59:19dom96we can always call it babelpkg or something
20:59:44Araqgradha: on mac you bootstrap with --gc:markAndSweep and then it compiles aporia, so yeah there is some nice corruption going on
21:00:00exhudom96, The program 'babel' can be found in the following packages:
21:00:01exhu * babel-1.4.0
21:00:01exhu * openbabel
21:00:22dom96then there is going to be 3 packages which clash heh
21:00:53exhuAraq, hi. i dont remember where i needed a hidden field access for a template -)))
21:03:09dom96BitPuffin: pinggg
21:03:17exhuAraq, so there's still problem with the default garbage collecteur?
21:03:49Araqapparently
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21:04:16Araqbut it's only on mac :P
21:05:15exhuAraq, macbooks are becoming popular in my country and company i work for... :-/
21:06:11AraqI did run some extensive checks recently with a special debug GC
21:06:50Araqdidn't find anything
21:10:00exhuAraq, how to debug memory leaks when using markAndSweep? is there smth like a dump function?
21:11:50Araqno
21:18:40gcrnoob question: is a float the same thing as a cfloat?
21:18:54gcror do nimrod floats like dedicate a few bits for GC collection info?
21:19:21gcri ask because i'm not sure how glBufferData would work; i have to pass it a void pointer to an area of contiguous memory that contains several floats
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21:19:54gcrwhich i'm guessing would be the addr() of an array of float
21:20:32Araqnimrod's float is C's double, nim's float32 is C's float
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21:21:43gcrah, ok
21:21:56gcrare arrays guaranteed to be contiguous blocks of memory that begin at addr(arr[0]) ?
21:22:04Araqyes
21:22:13gcrawesome! thanks
21:22:44gcrwait, then is a sequence like a...linked list? or an array that's realloc()'d when added to?
21:23:13Araqa seq is a growable array
21:23:35Araquse addr(s[0]) to get a pointer to the block of memory
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21:27:35gcroh, sweet
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21:32:21dom96Araq: Why can't I override --babelPath by passing --babelPath:"" ?
21:32:53AraqbabelPath is additive I think
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21:33:57dom96could you change that?
21:34:10Araqsure
21:34:23dom96Make it split by whatever the path seperator is perhaps.
21:35:07Araqnah, there can only be 1 babelpath then
21:35:59dom96no.
21:36:10dom96We will have a global and a local path.
21:36:14dom96So there will be multiple.
21:36:44Araqok so --babelpath does something completely different than --path. yay
21:37:17dom96It's already a highly babel specific thing anyway.
21:37:35dom96Users don't need to care about it.
21:37:37gradhaAraq: I'm not using markAndSweep
21:37:50Araqgradha: I know
21:37:55gradhashould I?
21:38:09Araqyeah, bootstrap with --gc:markAndSweep
21:38:11gradhaoh, zahary says so
21:41:39Araqdom96: compiler/babelcmd contains these things, you can change it yourself
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21:47:27gradhawith markAndSweep the release compiler doesn't corrupt memory, but still shows the same error in processes.nim, dom96, is that new?
21:51:51brihathi, how do i iterate over the code points of a string?
21:51:51brihat for c in runes(ರಾಮ): echo(c)
21:51:51brihatdoesn't work
21:52:19Araqwell it should
21:52:30Araqsaved the input file as utf-8?
21:52:50brihatYes, it is utf-8
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21:53:01Demoshello all
21:53:03brihatThis is the error i get:
21:53:05brihatunicode_test.nim(20, 7) Error: type mismatch: got (TRune)
21:53:05brihatbut expected one of:
21:53:05brihatsystem.$(x: int64): string
21:53:05brihatsystem.$(x: string): string
21:53:05brihatsystem.$(x: T): string
21:53:06brihatsystem.$(x: int): string
21:53:06brihatsystem.$(x: uint64): string
21:53:07brihatsystem.$(x: T): string
21:53:07brihatsystem.$(x: TEnum): string
21:53:08brihatsystem.$(x: char): string
21:53:08brihatsystem.$(x: bool): string
21:53:09brihatsystem.$(x: cstring): string
21:53:15Demosdude, pastebin
21:53:40brihatcopy-pasted to wrong window, sorry
21:54:22Araqwell there is no $ for a TRune then. *shrug* no big deal
21:54:34Araqhi Demos
21:55:38brihatAraq, any other way to do it?
21:56:00gradhabrihat: cast the TRune to an int, that's what they are anyway
21:56:11Araqfor c in runes(...): echo c.int
21:56:56brihatNo, i don't want to print the integer value.. i want the Unicode character to be printed!
21:57:27Araqecho the string then
21:57:51brihatof course, i know that :)
21:58:06gradha... echo c.toUTF8
21:58:24brihati want to split a unicode string into its corresponding runes and store it in an array of chars
21:59:05Araqwell a char can only hold a byte, so what you want makes no sense
21:59:11brihatgradha: print works, thanks!
21:59:36brihati want to store an array of runes from the unicode string
21:59:50gradhaIIRC multiple codepoints may make up a "char", how do you deal with that?
22:00:37EXetoC"iterator runes"?
22:01:31EXetoCalso, see sequtils.toSeq
22:02:04NimBotnimrod-code/babel master a6e2ad6 Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz [+0 ±1 -0]: Updates first installation instructions.
22:02:04NimBotnimrod-code/babel master fda6699 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±2 -0]: Override babelPath when building.... 2 more lines
22:02:04NimBotnimrod-code/babel master c8ded26 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge branch 'pr_fixes_install_docs' of git://github.com/gradha/babel into gradha-pr_fixes_install_docs
22:02:04NimBotnimrod-code/babel master de39680 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±1 -0]: Updated readme.
22:02:04NimBot1 more commits.
22:02:10DemosI assume you could also widen the string
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22:02:25brihatOK, let me elaborate. Here's a unicode string consisting of 3 runes: rama= "ರಾಮ" I want to get them into an array like {ರ, ಾ , ಮ }. How to do that?
22:03:05Demoswiden the string to something like UTF-32
22:03:25DemosI have code to do that in C, but not nimrod. So someone will need to help me out here
22:03:40NimBotnimrod-code/babel master 240718d Dominik Picheta [+0 ±1 -0]: Fix readme formatting.
22:05:50Araqyou can use sequtils.toSeq on the runes iterator to get what you want, but what you want is completely misguided ;-)
22:06:40dom96Araq: It seems the compiler outright rejects a --babelPath: with no path specified.
22:07:10Araqdom96: perhaps. why do you want --babelPath:"" in the first place?
22:07:37dom96Araq: I don't want the compiler to implicitly use packages I haven't specified.
22:07:39brihatAraq: I want what is in Python 3. rama= "ರಾಮ" Then {rama[0], rama[1], rama[2]} = {ರ, ಾ , ಮ } How hard can that be?
22:08:11Araqwell it helps to read what people wrote
22:08:20Araqsequtils.toSeq does that
22:08:40Araqbut it's still a completely wrong way to think about unicode
22:09:11brihatu mean, how it's done in Py 3 is wrong?
22:09:26Araqyes.
22:09:48Araqyou can't abstract over unicode and expect things to work
22:09:51Demosthere is no such thing as a "character", there are many things lkike chrarcters that are all different in slightly different ways
22:10:07Araqunicode has grown too complex
22:10:20Demosdo you want bytes? code points? somehting that takes up a space on the page...
22:10:37Demosunicode tackles a complex problem
22:11:01Araqyou can have something like a` that is *2* utf-32 chars but should be handled like one
22:11:43Araqbecause it's rendered like á
22:11:59Araqso the human being expects an edit distance of 1, not 2
22:12:47Araqnimrod's utf-8 way simply makes these things way more obvious instead of failing for edge cases
22:13:15brihatWell I get your point, I'm not concerned about display (i.e. graphemes)
22:13:31Demoswhat /are/ you concerned about
22:13:37brihatto me, unicode string = sequence of codepoints
22:13:56brihatand i want to get those codepoints to an array for further manipulation
22:14:20DemosI would say widen it to UTF-32, apperently with sequtils.toSeq
22:14:24dom96Araq: Can I add a --noBabelPath or something?
22:14:38brihatbut nimrod thinks unicode string = UTF-8 representation of codepoint
22:15:14gradhabrihat: actually nimrod doesn't know about unicode strings, there are strings, and there are TRunes
22:15:21Araqdom96: if you don't like --babelPath, then we can just as well get rid of it
22:15:35dom96Araq: What? I never said that.
22:15:49gradhaif you use len(string) it returns the amount of bytes, not the amount of "characters", because character means different things to different people
22:15:52dom96Araq: I like it. I just need a way to disable it.
22:16:11Araqalright then add that *sigh*
22:17:12brihatgradha: exactly, I want len(str) to print number of runes, but it actually prints number of bytes taken by the UTF-8 representation of str
22:17:42brihatBasically, Nimrod does Unicode as in Python 2, while I find Python 3's way to be more correct and natural
22:17:57*gradha he used the word natural, oh god
22:18:15brihatlol
22:18:22brihatwhat's wrong with that
22:18:44Demosunicode is HARD. makeing it more natural only makes wrong code work
22:18:51Demosit does not make writing correct code eaiser
22:18:52gradhanatural is like "string", it means so many things to different people
22:19:26Araqlen returning the number of bytes is the right thing to do for things like newStringOfCap(s.len)
22:19:59Araqit's much more often the correct answer than what runeLen returns
22:20:00gradhabrihat: you are also presuming nimrod strings store utf8 characters, but that's convention, they could store anything else
22:20:15Araqgradha: that's not entirely correct
22:20:29gradhathen we need to update the documentation part where that is said
22:20:40Araqon windows we go through some pain and use win's unicode API
22:20:42EXetoCunicode in python 2 is a real pain
22:21:00Araqwe assume utf-8 on all other OSes though
22:21:22Araqand if you want input utf-8 validation, use the taint mode and do it for yourself
22:21:24Demosare strings in windows stored in UTF-8 and widened or stored in UTF-16?
22:21:39AraqDemos: utf-16
22:21:40gradhaAraq: ok, that's what I meant, a string is just a buffer, you can put anything there, and things can go wrong
22:21:55brihatBack to my question,
22:21:55brihat for c in toSeq(runes(ರಾಮ)): echo(c)
22:21:55brihatstill gives same compilation error. Am I missing something?
22:22:06brihattoSeq( ) didn't help
22:22:13Araqyes, 'echo' calls $
22:22:25Araqthere is no $ for TRune because we don't know what it should do
22:22:44Araqit can convert to its integer representation or do toUTF8
22:23:03Araqso you need to decide on your own what you want
22:23:10brihatWell, then how does $ work for seq[TRune]
22:23:24Araqit doesn't work either
22:23:33Araqor does it? ;-)
22:23:42brihatThere is a $ operator here: http://nimrod-lang.org/unicode.html
22:24:02Araqoh alright
22:24:15Araqthen that converts it back to a string :P
22:24:41Araqwhich makes sense
22:24:43Araqlol
22:24:53brihatso natural :)
22:25:10EXetoCyay consistency
22:25:45Araqwell I guess you could argue $ for TRune should call toUTF8
22:26:30brihatThat would be consistent
22:31:47EXetoCwhenever it's added you mean?
22:32:25EXetoCin addition to `$`(seq[TRune])
22:32:38brihatI can make a bug report or submit a pull request
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22:33:06brihatfor `$`(TRune)
22:33:12Araqfine ... I'm not sure it's a good idea
22:33:45EXetoCyou did say TRune rather than seq[TRune] so that's why I asked
22:33:46Araqbut fine
22:35:20dom96Araq: https://gist.github.com/dom96/d99255b11a9f6fcb93a4 Happy?
22:36:23Araqnot happy at all, but I accept it
22:38:15NimBotAraq/Nimrod master a2a5395 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±2 -0]: Added --noBabelPath override.
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22:42:28NimBotnimrod-code/babel master 4d8d3cb Dominik Picheta [+0 ±1 -0]: Added --noBabelPath to list of arguments when building.
22:42:57gradhadom96: isn't noBabelPath essentially a module level patch over the problem people face importing unicode from a source named unicode.nim?
22:43:37dom96oh yeah. But it also works for other problems. Like, try compiling Aporia with it now. It essentially magically fixes every single problem.
22:45:24gradhaios and android have solved the collision problem, it's just dns reverse notation with 5 nested levels
22:46:07dom96Well, I was just kidding lol
22:46:27dom96It's not a fix for that.
22:47:36gradhawhat a shame, I was just going to test compiling
22:50:41gcrbrihat: did you use quotes? for c in toSeq(runes("ರಾಮ")): echo(c)
22:51:22Araqof course he did
22:51:22brihatoh well, i have defined var ರಾಮ = "ರಾಮ" so it's correct
22:51:50gradhafear no more, ruby 2.1.0 is released
22:52:04gcrfor c in toSeq(runes("ರಾಮ")): echo c.toUTF8 <-- this outputs a UTF8 representation of each codepoint in the string
22:52:13gcrworks for me, just tried it
22:52:47gcror you could treat them as ints, as discussed, since that's what they are
22:53:00gcrbut there shouldn't be a compilation error, I hope :)
22:53:09dom96gradha: "Ruby 2.1 has many improvements including speed up without severe incompatibilities"
22:53:14dom96TIME TO SWITCH
22:53:33brihatgcr: yes, i just made a PR so that: for c in toSeq(runes("ರಾಮ")): echo c also works
22:53:42dom96It's bound to be orders of magnitude faster than asm.js by now, surely...
22:54:28Demoshm ruby looks OK for small apps
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22:59:12OrionPKMaraq is there a way to determine which imports are unused in a file w/ idetools
22:59:26Araqno
23:00:11OrionPKMthat might be nice, if it's feasible
23:01:45Araqthere is a feature request already for it
23:03:43OrionPKMcoo
23:04:18OrionPKMI'll have to add a "sort and clean up imports" option in the ST plugin if it ever gets in ;)
23:04:46OrionPKMgroup imports by source as well; whether stdlib / babel or local
23:06:38Araqyeah.
23:06:48AraqI'm panning a new PL btw
23:07:07AraqI call it "maxredundancy"
23:07:23Araqit makes you type in the proc headers at callsite
23:08:16Araqstandardlibrary.no.abbreviations.foo(4: int, 5: int)
23:08:27Araqand that everywhere
23:08:40Araqbecause it's good for maintainability
23:09:03Araqwhen all you wanna use is notepad and you never write any code anyway
23:11:19Araqthe type system is revolutionary too: it ensures your type descriptions grow longer than your actual programs
23:18:33EXetoCcool
23:25:00fowli was just thinking about creaitng << and >> procs for string reading/writing lol
23:28:05gradhagood night, honey badgers
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23:46:00OrionPKM:p
23:46:37OrionPKMyou don't like the idea of removing unused libraries araq?
23:46:52AraqI like the idea
23:47:22Araqbut I seriously wonder why Ada is not incredibly popular
23:47:48OrionPKMwhat does that have to do with anything
23:48:12OrionPKMits an ide feature not anything more
23:48:37Araqyeah well
23:50:31Araqas I said, I like the idea
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23:54:01OrionPKMyou're the cattiest language developer I know araq