<< 29-01-2021 >>
00:01:39leorize[m]for sys/exec, should I look in PATH for `sh` or should I hardcode `/bin/sh`?
00:02:12leorize[m]POSIX said I should do a search, but I have seen people hardcoding the path so not sure what I should do
00:05:06disruptekseems crazy to hardcode the path.
00:05:21FromDiscord<Clyybber> @alehander42 thanks for the thanks :D although I'm as clueless as zach
00:06:08disruptekleorize[m]: btw, i exposed the runner code in balls.
00:07:33FromDiscord<Clyybber> leorize hey did you see my earlier ping?
00:07:56FromDiscord<Clyybber> curious if my PR fixed your issue
00:07:59leorize[m]disruptek: nice
00:08:19leorize[m]@Clyybber I haven't test it yet, sorry
00:08:39FromDiscord<Clyybber> ah no problem, I added your repro as a test
00:08:56FromDiscord<Clyybber> the minimal one
00:09:33FromDiscord<Clyybber> disruptek: again, which bug do you want fixed?
00:09:39FromDiscord<Clyybber> the for loops?
00:09:46FromDiscord<Clyybber> cause thats not a bug.
00:09:59FromDiscord<Clyybber> as i said a few times
00:10:00disruptek#16719
00:10:01disbothttps://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/16719 -- 3CPS demonstrates SEGV in compiler during simple transform
00:10:17leorize[m]@Clyybber can I have a guarantee that stuff that has to be initialized will not have their destructor called before initialization?
00:10:30FromDiscord<Clyybber> disruptek ah thanks
00:10:41FromDiscord<Clyybber> leorize not yet
00:11:04leorize[m]will that be an actual thing in the spec?
00:11:14FromDiscord<Clyybber> probably
00:11:25disruptekif it's not, it's insane.
00:15:50FromDiscord<konsumlamm> anyone wanna review #16820
00:15:50disbothttps://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/16820 -- 3Sugar tests
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01:27:11FromDiscord<konsumlamm> (edit) anyone wanna review #16820?
01:27:12disbothttps://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/16820 -- 3Sugar tests
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02:39:04disruptekno.
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04:23:23FromGitter<timotheecour> @konsumlamm done
04:23:55FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> A rare occurrence of a timothee in realtime chat 😄
04:25:00FromGitter<timotheecour> :)
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06:43:10saemHmm, now I'm trying to figure out what that means macros don't work well.
06:44:52saemoh, it's for the whole graph, it just bails all the time from then on without trying to make any progress.
06:46:38FromGitter<Araq> see my PR
06:46:44FromGitter<Araq> after an error we never evaluate macros
06:48:00saemYeah, it's not scoped narrower like say in vm.myProcess, which is for the pass context.
06:48:13saemsee one and then forever bail
06:49:23FromGitter<Araq> the fix is easy, we need to remove these lines
06:49:46saemI'm trying that out for the macro test
06:51:35saemNot thinking great at this time of night. So I was trying to see how ast and semtypinst changes fit into it, but that's a different matter.
06:56:07saemdefinitely fix the successive call issue for twithin_macro_prefix. \o/
06:57:58saemtwithin_macro no longer crashes, but it's falling back to "suggest_all_the_things", which is much improved. I have a hunch to chase up there, though.
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07:02:11disrupteknice job.
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07:13:11FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Currently playing around with views and splitting strings, and for large data, it's like 1.5-3 times as fast with my meh implementations
07:14:14FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> by large data i mean a 100,000 character long randomly generated string 😄
07:14:39FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Not anywhere near a practical example
07:20:15FromGitter<Araq> note that views are unfixably broken though
07:20:36FromGitter<Araq> well "unfixably" here means "needs a new RFC before we can fix them"
07:20:56FromGitter<Araq> the existing RFC was too simple
07:21:33FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Yea i've walked into bad codegen already toying with them
07:22:03FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> my `split(string, string)` is also slower than the stdlib's
07:23:04FromGitter<Araq> codegen bugs are just bugs, design problems are tougher
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07:30:23FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I've gotta ask, what's the flaw(s) with them as they sit?
07:31:51disruptekthey are taking time away from fixing codegen bugs in properly-designed features.
07:32:01FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> lol
07:35:18disruptekhttps://github.com/disruptek/bloom/runs/1789498262?check_suite_focus=true#step:4:621
07:35:39disruptekevery version fails differently.
07:37:27FromGitter<Araq> ElegantBeef: when we reify a view type from `openArray` the mutability aspect must become part of the type, `var openArray` vs `openArray` is not good enough
07:37:27disruptekthe program doesn't even produce output on windows; it crashes immediately due to stack overflow.
07:38:50FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Close windows, you're letting the stack out
07:39:38saemAin't no one paying to stack the outside.
07:39:42FromGitter<Araq> in C# there are mutable and immutable views for the same reason and also some complexity like you cannot have a view inside a `class`, it must stay on the stack. I don't know yet if I like this idea better than borrow checking, it certainly is simpler though
07:43:15saemWould a reasonable approximation be: views as a type that is a "stack of types", where the current type is whatever the top of the stack is, and me types are pushed/popped based on when it changes hand?
07:43:36saems/me/new
07:44:08FromGitter<Araq> I don't know what that means
07:49:24saemPresently, anything with a var, lent, open array is a view type. Basically anything that looks at memory that is elsewhere.
07:49:34saemThat's my rough approximation
07:50:07FromGitter<Araq> yeah
07:50:56FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Were you saying that the lifetime works like a stack that is pushed/popped until out of scope?
07:51:02saemSo a slice, on an open array, or a immutable version of some existing thing passed to say a proc is creating new views and the view itself has a lifetime we reason about
07:51:23saemYes, beef, but lifetime is also type
07:51:58FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> "lifetime is also type" doesnt mean anything to me
07:52:18FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I'm a numpty afterall, so use small works like "a", "i" and so one
07:52:19FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> (edit) "one" => "on"
07:53:01saemAs in push, at some point in the code, a new type, and then pop at some other point in the code
07:53:03FromDiscord<Rika> NumPty
07:54:29FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I have no idea what that'd do differently, so i'll be in the corner clapping my hands
07:54:58saemThe type remembers it's history
07:55:39saemAnd you can check for violations of a time like, thou shalt not broaden definition. If that's what you want to enforce.
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07:56:09saemUgh, phone... also tired
07:59:00saemBeef I think you get it, and maybe I misunderstood you.
07:59:11FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I dont think i do
08:00:12saemIf I change the type of something from one thing to another, that's a destructive operation in that information is lost. The old type
08:00:26saemHence why I'm saying stack
08:00:32saemA stack remembers
08:00:59FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> To me it just seems like you're suggesting a stack based borrow checker
08:01:38saemWhen I'm saying stack I don't mean the stack as in stack vs heap
08:01:46FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I know
08:01:55saemOk, just making sure
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08:03:45saemBut I honestly don't see how else views work. They're effectively saying for x lifetime you can do some stuff to this memory over there.
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08:05:15FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Well the current borrow checker just sees if any views of the original are used after any given line, if so you cannot directly mutate the object
08:06:06FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I might be overly tired so probably at a great level to speak about anything 😄
08:06:27saemLoL, two peas in a pod
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08:15:15FromGitter<Araq> not "after any given line" but close enough. there is an "abstract clock ticking"
08:18:50saemRereading the restrictions mentioned on the experimental page, by pushing a type that doesn't allow said mutation for that lifetime. A bunch of the other restrictions that require looking at history, max lifetime would be cannot exceed previous type. Heap to heap definitely means yet more metadata and careful analysis.
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08:21:44saemIt seems a lot like a restricted version of affine types?
08:26:13FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Having read one wikipedia sentence on them, those are clearly more restricted than views, since you can only use them at most one time
08:30:24saemYeah, restricted isn't the right word, i meant limited in terms of how far it goes.
08:31:06saemI need to stop trying to think this hard late at night, getting incoherent
08:31:21FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Lucky for me i'm always incoherent
08:32:13saem"that's the trick, I'm always incoherent"
08:32:15FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I personally do like the idea of views and how they're intended to be implemented but i also have 0 idea any actual issues with the implementation 😄
08:32:29PMunchHmm, well this doesn't seem right: tm: (tm_sec: 49, tm_min: 8, tm_hour: 11, tm_mday: 25, tm_mon: 5, tm_year: 80276403, tm_wday: 4, tm_yday: 175, tm_isdst: 1)
08:32:43FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Back on the int32 issue 😄
08:33:14PMunchWell it seems like it's more of an issue with the local times module..
08:33:34saemTracking that much state, doing it accurately and precisely, then drawing correct conclusions on all that is a whole thing.
08:33:49PMunchtm_year: 80276403
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08:43:43PMunchThis is so weird..
08:43:54PMunchSo localtime takes a CTime
08:44:38PMunchI have echoed out my values, and I pass the exact same CTime to localtime twice, and sometimes it works, but sometimes it fails..
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09:20:50adnan338Hi, not relevant but does a typical consumer level x86 processor qualify as a microcontroller unit?
09:22:54FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Uhh, not by most definitions, micro controllers are typically much more limited in memory and speed than desktop CPUs
09:31:24FromDiscord<mratsim> Did we mentioned being limited by memory?
09:32:10FromDiscord<mratsim> even a Raspberry Pi is not a microcontroller
09:36:19FromDiscord<Goel> https://takahser.github.io/tldr/rust-performance-safety.png↵Where would you place Nim on this graph?
09:37:33FromDiscord<mratsim> It's missing ADA which would be even more on the right than Rust and Haskell
09:38:38FromDiscord<mratsim> Unsure, I would put it at the same level as Rust, it has definitely as much control as C.
09:39:27FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> ~~Cant resist mentioning pico~~
09:39:33FromDiscord<mratsim> and safety is similar with twist: Rust has no range type or distinct type for example. The borrow checker and not nil references are more advanced though the experimental view types are closing the gap.
09:39:47FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> if we consider rust and c the same level of control/performance, ye
09:39:50FromDiscord<Goel> (edit) https://takahser.github.io/tldr/rust-performance-safety.png↵Where would you place Nim on this graph?↵Safety goes from 1 to 10↵Control/Performance goes from 1 to 10
09:40:26FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Yea the generic term "safety" doesnt mean much
09:40:55FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> there was a web wich explained safety in multiple langs...
09:40:58FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> let me see
09:41:11FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> To reference rick and morty, I've seen what rust considers unsafe 😄
09:41:23FromDiscord<Goel> I read "safety" as: This programming language tries his best to prevent you to get Error/bugs prior compile time
09:43:53FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> http://www.toodarkpark.org/computers/humor/shoot-self-in-foot.html
09:43:53FromDiscord<mratsim> I don't see how C++ can be slower than C.
09:44:12FromDiscord<mratsim> just like Nim, if you write C++ like C it's the same performance.
09:44:18FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> There is nothing stopping you to write Nim like C but with different syntax so i dont think that's a fantastic metric, unless you mean "when writing idiomatic"
09:44:34FromDiscord<mratsim> also destructors improved C++ safety a lot
09:45:24FromDiscord<mratsim> I don't consider Rust data race safe for example. You need formal verification to be data race free, whatever people say.
09:47:57FromDiscord<Goel> Also i have another question, let's say im running out of Examples and Tutorials... Which would be considered the "closer" language to have a look at for their Examples/Tutorial and trying to test them on Nim?
09:48:21FromDiscord<Goel> (edit) "Tutorials..." => "Tutorials in the Nim references..."
09:51:49ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by Vinyll: Immutable vs mutable, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/7443
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09:54:41FromDiscord<mratsim> Are you a low-level dev or a high-level dev?
09:55:19FromDiscord<mratsim> If you come from C, C++, Rust or even Go I think it's actually easier to pick up Nim.
09:55:46FromDiscord<Goel> I have no experience in C or C++, i have some on Rust and Python
09:55:57FromDiscord<mratsim> We recruited Go engineers and they could grasp and produce excellent code in a month despite having a huge codebase and very advanced concepts (cryptograph, blockchain, networking).
09:56:19FromDiscord<mratsim> Rust will help a lot I think.
09:56:38FromDiscord<mratsim> Python will help regarding the loss of curly braces :p
09:57:00FromDiscord<mratsim> you can have a look at this: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/wiki/Nim-for-Python-Programmers
09:57:13FromDiscord<Goel> I'll take a look thanks
09:57:33FromDiscord<mratsim> Regarding safety, this is what I wrote for our security auditor: https://nimbus.guide/auditors-book/
09:58:07FromDiscord<mratsim> (I'm working at Status and we are writing a Nim client for the Ethereum 2 blockchain, live since December 1 and securing $4B USD of assets at the moment)
09:58:58FromDiscord<mratsim> It uses state of the art cryptography that we helped push a internet standard for and state of the art P2P networking.
09:59:52FromDiscord<Goel> Mostly about "safety" i was just concerned about Implicity, like i was looking about something basic examples on Scala, and i noticed that if you define a variabile = 1 + "2" it will automatically convert it to a string "3" and thats stupid, nothing like that exist on Rust fortunatly
10:01:05FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> That's just intelligent type safety
10:01:10FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Nim's loaded full of it 😄
10:01:48FromDiscord<mratsim> there is no integer promotion thankfully
10:01:53FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Most conversion in Nim have to be done explicitly unless you have a `converter` which are generally frowned upon unless the use case is reasonable
10:02:12FromDiscord<mratsim> you need to explicitly do `import std/lenientops` if you want more implicit conversion.
10:03:00FromDiscord<mratsim> also generics usually remove the need of conversion. Just write generic proc.
10:03:16FromDiscord<mratsim> lenientops is mostly for float->int covnersion
10:03:21FromDiscord<Rika> Oh man generics are legitimately a blessing
10:04:29FromDiscord<Rika> And no you can’t do JavaScript style fuckery in Nim unless you force it to do so
10:04:50FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> It's flexible, but it requires you to push it
10:05:09FromDiscord<Goel> Im just complaining about the "design" of Scala for the little i know, why would you set that int to string convertion to Default? I don't understand, but me as a noob in program language i want to get an error if i try to add an Int to a String, and not an implicit conversion that i never asked
10:05:27FromDiscord<Rika> Don’t worry then
10:05:31FromDiscord<Rika> You get those errors here
10:05:37FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Just shit talk scala and move along 😛
10:05:54FromDiscord<Rika> Though Nim’s errors are still a bit hard to read
10:05:54FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Just dont let jsgrant see you say anything like that
10:06:09FromDiscord<Rika> Isn’t he more of a Common guy
10:06:15FromDiscord<mratsim> to be faire, I just had a Java program throw me errors and they are haaaaaaarrrddd
10:06:17FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> He likes CL and scala
10:06:24FromDiscord<mratsim> (edit) "faire," => "fair,"
10:06:32FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Yea you need a cvs reciept to be able to read a java error message
10:06:36FromDiscord<Rika> Lol
10:07:27FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> One super long namespaces/packages, two super long stack traces, that i think go far enough back until before the first jvm was made
10:07:52FromDiscord<Rika> Nim has insane length stack traces for async though
10:08:07FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Havent seen them
10:08:12FromDiscord<Rika> How
10:08:20FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I've only ever used async once
10:08:21FromDiscord<Rika> Do you never use async
10:08:25FromDiscord<Rika> What the hell
10:08:31FromDiscord<Rika> I use it basically all the time
10:08:35FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I dont see the benefit
10:08:39FromDiscord<Rika> It’s so useful
10:08:41FromDiscord<Rika> What
10:08:51FromDiscord<Goel> Is Nim good even for Machine Learning and Data Science? (even though usually they consider better at this Python or the new Julia or R)?
10:08:55FromDiscord<Rika> Man the fuck kinda programs do you write
10:08:57FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I do small things that i dont see/feel the need to async
10:09:05FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Mratsim is the guy to talk to about ML and the like
10:09:06FromDiscord<Rika> I think it’s a good language for that
10:09:32FromDiscord<Rika> If it’s small sure but anything long running should be async IMO
10:09:35FromDiscord<mratsim> It has a lot of potential, but we need time to build the tools
10:09:42FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Eh i've got threads
10:09:48FromDiscord<Rika> That’s just awful
10:10:00FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> My most complex nim software is using threads for watching git branches and starting unity builds
10:10:00FromDiscord<Rika> You don’t even get errors there sometimes
10:10:15FromDiscord<Rika> You don’t need threads for that
10:10:25FromDiscord<Rika> What the fuck dude
10:10:40FromDiscord<Rika> Smh https://shouldiusethreads.com
10:10:54FromDiscord<mratsim> @Goel https://github.com/nim-lang/needed-libraries/issues/77 and https://discord.com/channels/371759389889003530/755344160592101389/791367184541941760
10:10:54disbot➥ [Meta] Are we scientists yet?
10:11:27FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I havent had any issues with threading yet and it works fine it seems
10:11:38FromDiscord<mratsim> > But, perhaps your problem is CPU bound. In that case — you still shouldn't use threads! ↵That's so wrong
10:11:41FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I'm not sharing anything cross threads
10:12:10FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Each thread is watching a single git branch, and if it gets a commit it starts 3 async unity builds, one for each desktop platform then uploads them to the GCS or github
10:12:24FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Seems threads are perfectly fine for that
10:12:25FromDiscord<Rika> Yes but in this case beef isn’t cpu bound h
10:12:50FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> No i'm just you know blocked by building unity projects which can take 5-10 minutes
10:13:06FromDiscord<Rika> You can start processes asynchronously can’t you
10:13:33FromDiscord<mratsim> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/2NCZ
10:13:37FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Feel free do audit this, some of it is overly ugly https://github.com/beef331/unity-auto-builder
10:13:44FromDiscord<Rika> Good to know what’s wrong about it, I’d like to know why it’s wrong though
10:13:49FromDiscord<mratsim> I agree on the event loop and coroutine part
10:14:24FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I pretty much never touch async being close to "single loop game dev go brrr"
10:14:34FromDiscord<mratsim> "the user of the program may have a more novel idea about how to distribute work", using threads doesn't remove the control from the user.
10:14:50FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Async isnt built on game time which results in not many use cases for my size of projects
10:14:59FromDiscord<Rika> What is game time
10:15:07FromDiscord<mratsim> a much better architecture is putting a service per thread, and using channels to establish producer->consumer pipelines.
10:15:17FromDiscord<Rika> Most of the things I make are tiny web servers that do kinda random stuff
10:15:20FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Game time is the time of the actual game which is increased by `deltaTime timeScale`
10:15:23FromDiscord<mratsim> you don't need shared memory to do threads
10:15:50FromDiscord<mratsim> microservices are basically producers-> consumers pipe.
10:15:50FromDiscord<Rika> I think the author is unaware of channels
10:15:51FromDiscord<Rika> Maybe
10:15:53FromDiscord<Rika> No clue
10:15:58FromDiscord<mratsim> I think so
10:16:02FromDiscord<lqdev> processes are more costly and quite a bit more flaky to work with than threads ime
10:16:10FromDiscord<Rika> Yes they are more costly
10:16:14FromDiscord<Rika> Not sure on flaky
10:16:19FromDiscord<lqdev> in nim, at least
10:16:28FromDiscord<lqdev> coordinating a few ffmpeg processes was a nightmare
10:16:47FromDiscord<mratsim> it's complex to share data between process because of separate address space
10:17:05FromDiscord<mratsim> suddenly you involve kernel context switch for pipes or need to do some mmap magic.
10:17:14FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> But dont worry rika i used async in there https://github.com/beef331/unity-auto-builder/blob/master/src/unity_auto_builder.nim#L216
10:17:18FromDiscord<Rika> Context switch :monkaChrist:
10:17:42FromDiscord<mratsim> kernel context switch means flushing all your cache and goodbye high performance computing
10:17:55FromDiscord<lqdev> while i do agree with some points on that website, multithreading still has its uses
10:17:56FromDiscord<Rika> Yeah I’ve heard it’s basically death to speed
10:18:15FromDiscord<Rika> I agree with any of the points when not cpu bound
10:18:20FromDiscord<lqdev> yeah
10:18:28FromDiscord<mratsim> It's related to what I posted yesterday, RAM is very slow compaed to a CPU
10:18:29FromDiscord<Rika> I’m not well versed in cpu bound processing so I have no opinion on that
10:18:51FromDiscord<lqdev> @mratsim you seem to collect tons of these latency comparison diagrams btw
10:19:03FromDiscord<Rika> They’re useful haha
10:19:06FromDiscord<lqdev> yeah
10:19:09FromDiscord<mratsim> I just google search for them when needed
10:19:10FromDiscord<lqdev> very good analogies
10:19:14FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I do have to say i haven ran my build system for an extended period so i have no clue how reliable it is
10:19:20FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> (edit) "haven" => "havent"
10:19:25FromDiscord<Rika> Inb4 unreliable
10:19:40FromDiscord<mratsim> they are all linked in the comment of this gist: https://gist.github.com/jboner/2841832
10:19:45FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> It was working fine when it was just uploading to github
10:19:53FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> My friend hasnt got around to setting it up for his game yet
10:20:31FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> But this is why i'm not allowed to develop, i'll stop working on stuff to make other software, working on cords and having to swap between build platforms caused me to make that
10:20:39FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Bad software sucks worse than badly written software 😛
10:20:45FromDiscord<mratsim> One thing for sure is that, before thinking threads for optimizations, you need to optimize the algorithm and if still slow, check if the bottle neck is IO, memory or CPU
10:21:20FromDiscord<mratsim> IO is fixable with caches.
10:21:22FromDiscord<lqdev> true that
10:21:24FromDiscord<mratsim> memory is hard
10:21:30FromDiscord<mratsim> CPu is multithreading
10:21:36FromDiscord<lqdev> i wanted to multithread my parser but then i just made it suck less
10:21:44FromDiscord<lqdev> and now it's one of the fastest in its kind
10:21:56FromDiscord<lqdev> threads would only slow it down tbh
10:22:00FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Now go work on the nimvm to get it faster 😄
10:22:05FromDiscord<lqdev> n
10:22:30FromDiscord<mratsim> for parsing you need to do a prepass to find the byte indices of the new lines or whatever important marker you can use.
10:22:46FromDiscord<mratsim> I don't think the NimVM is bottlenecked on parsing.
10:22:51FromDiscord<lqdev> yeah but if parsing a large file takes like, 70ms, then what's the point
10:22:54FromDiscord<mratsim> likely bottlenecked on type resolution
10:24:56FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Well it also has more passes which i assume other interpreters dont deal with, though i'm speaking out of my arse like 99% of the time
10:25:45FromDiscord<Rika> What do y’all use for web servers? Prologue?
10:28:19FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I'd tell you i used anything 😄
10:29:16FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Anyway, i sleep now, send your hatemail to your least favourite usuer
10:29:18FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> (edit) "usuer" => "usur"
10:29:23FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I cannot spell
10:30:32FromDiscord<Rika> Lol
10:35:38PMunchI modified my local times.nim with this: http://ix.io/2ND7 and this is the output: http://ix.io/2ND6
10:35:44PMunchI'm seriously confused
10:56:34PMunchIt just seems like the underlying `localtime` returns completely wrong results..
10:58:09PMunchBut it only seems to happen on the RPi
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11:17:27FromDiscord<dom96> > I pretty much never touch async being close to "single loop game dev go brrr"↵Stardust uses async 😄
11:18:03FromDiscord<dom96> Avoid threads like the plague
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11:27:44FromDiscord<Meowz> I've just used asyncio on python so just for my understanding: Nim's async works the same right. An event loop and procedures need to be I/O bound. Like you can't await an cpu intensive task right. You would still need threads there. I barely know what I'm talking about so excuse me please 😄
11:28:48FromDiscord<Meowz> (edit) "right." => "right which would block the event loop."
11:28:55PMunchThis is even more confusing, added a try/catch around it and now it just stopped outputting half my echoes..
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11:31:59FromDiscord<dom96> @Meowz you are exactly correct
11:39:37FromDiscord<dom96> PMunch: consider whether endianess is a problem, since the RPi uses arm the endianess will be different to what we typically run this code on
11:40:06PMunchThe problem is that it sometimes works just fine for the same timestamp..
11:45:37FromDiscord<dom96> that usually implies a memory corruption somewhere
11:45:54FromDiscord<dom96> if you compile with arc and use valgrind it could give you some hints
11:51:43FromDiscord<Rika> i believe all async works like that
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11:55:01hmmmdear nimions, what can I do after a if is I want nothing do be done? like pass or discard smth?
11:55:22hmmmjesus my english
11:55:26FromDiscord<lqdev> discard
11:55:44FromDiscord<lqdev> `if yourCondition: discard`
11:55:56hmmmperfect, I'll try ty my bro
11:55:57FromDiscord<lqdev> though then your if is a noop so you may as well remove it completely
11:56:24hmmmye I was thinking the same but at the same time I didn't want to touch something that is working lol
11:56:51FromDiscord<lqdev> well it's fine if that if statement is part of code that is still wip
11:57:45hmmmperfect it works
11:57:53hmmm<3
12:04:14hmmmok time for some eyecandy, what can I use to output colored text to terminal
12:08:30FromDiscord<Rika> terminal module
12:08:35FromDiscord<Rika> in stdlib
12:08:40FromDiscord<Rika> unless youre in windows
12:08:50FromDiscord<Rika> needs more fuckery to get that working in windows i believe
12:09:36hmmmRika! <3
12:09:50hmmmye I'm on linux for this one
12:09:57hmmmI'll look into it
12:10:26FromDiscord<Rika> oh yeah hi /hm+/
12:20:20FromDiscord<Meowz> terminal works fine in windows
12:20:32FromDiscord<Meowz> well at least colors and basics
12:20:43FromDiscord<Rika> might be changed since windows terminal app
12:20:54FromDiscord<Rika> (edit) "be" => "have"
12:21:07FromDiscord<lqdev> works even on cmd.exe
12:21:11FromDiscord<Meowz> yup
12:21:28FromDiscord<Rika> good to know
12:21:28FromDiscord<lqdev> it doesn't work on git bash though
12:21:37FromDiscord<lqdev> or so i think
12:21:50FromDiscord<lqdev> nim compiler output is not colored on git bash for some reason
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12:27:36hmmmmy brain is too small to understand terminal documentation: basically if I call setStyle(styleBright =1) my next echo lines will be bright?
12:28:26FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> anyone knows why i get `Error: invalid type: 'PNGResult' for var`↵with this code? `var png: PNGResult`↵https://github.com/jangko/nimPNG/blob/316cfbb795ec2984a36e03faf8c9a9550dde1108/nimPNG.nim#L232-L236
12:28:27FromDiscord<Rika> yes
12:28:39hmmmty Rika I'll try
12:28:48FromDiscord<Rika> @Recruit_main707 missing generic parameter?
12:29:11FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> tanks
12:29:14FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> thanks lol
12:29:47FromDiscord<Rika> lol
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13:17:01FromDiscord<konsumlamm> idk what you were doing, but that is not true (at least by default), `1 + "2"` will result in `"12"` and even that is deprecated now
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13:42:45hmmmhaha my terminal colors are so pretty
13:42:49hmmmty rika !
13:43:08hmmmmy current problem is that the colors stay after execution :o
13:43:21hmmmhow do I reset to normal before terminating
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13:44:02FromDiscord<Yardanico> https://nim-lang.org/docs/terminal.html#resetAttributes
13:44:10FromDiscord<Yardanico> if you mean terminal module of course
13:44:21hmmmyardanico you absolute beauty, will try it just now
13:44:56FromDiscord<Yardanico> How safe is it to define a global int variable and modify from multiple threads?
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13:49:41FromDiscord<konsumlamm> sounds very unsafe
13:52:11FromDiscord<lqdev> not safe
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13:52:34FromDiscord<lqdev> unless you use atomicInc and atomicDec, and similar atomic operations
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13:53:23FromDiscord<Yardanico> oh yeah, just found the atomics module
13:53:27FromDiscord<Yardanico> wonder if it still works 🤔
13:54:51FromDiscord<lqdev> beware, last time i checked it uses the c++ backend 🥶
13:55:25FromDiscord<Yardanico> nah, seems to use builtins with the C backend now
13:55:26FromDiscord<Yardanico> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/version-1-4/lib/pure/concurrency/atomics.nim#L170
13:55:32FromDiscord<lqdev> jk of course, the c++ backend needs more use
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14:04:10PMunchThis times module issue is really bugging me..
14:06:31FromDiscord<Rika> it is called a bug after all
14:12:55hmmmhey yall how do I erase everything from an opened file
14:13:09hmmmmaybe open with write!
14:13:14FromDiscord<lqdev> yeah
14:13:17FromDiscord<lqdev> exactly
14:13:23hmmmI'm certified genius
14:13:32PMunch@Rika true..
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14:15:07hmmmbut I can't lqdev becuase I passed to my proc the file already opened, so my proc doesn't know the filename, do we have something to retrieve it
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14:18:09FromDiscord<lqdev> hm, that may be a bit difficult
14:18:15FromDiscord<lqdev> there isn't a way i know of
14:18:24FromDiscord<lqdev> but C has freopen
14:18:29FromDiscord<lqdev> give me a minute
14:18:48FromDiscord<lqdev> aw frick, reopen takes a filename too
14:22:15FromDiscord<Deorder> How do I disable `ConvFromXtoItselfNotNeeded` from a nim.cfg?
14:22:31FromDiscord<Deorder> I get thus `Error: unknown warning: ConvFromXtoItselfNotNeeded`
14:22:53FromDiscord<Deorder> (edit) "I get thus `Error: unknown warning: ConvFromXtoItselfNotNeeded` ... " added "when doing this `--warning[ConvFromXtoItselfNotNeeded]:off`"
14:23:07FromDiscord<lqdev> doesn't --warning[ConvFromXtoItselfNotNeeded]:off work?
14:23:12FromDiscord<lqdev> ah
14:23:14FromDiscord<Deorder> (edit) "thus" => "this"
14:23:27FromDiscord<lqdev> sounds like a bug
14:26:14hmmmhey apparently it exist something called reopen
14:26:29hmmmI might try just that and see if the entire thing doesn't blow up in my face
14:27:35PMunchJust realised that the time structs I get are completely different between my machine and the RPi
14:27:42PMunchIs this a wrapping issue?
14:28:13FromDiscord<lqdev> hmmm: told you about it, but it also needs a filename string
14:28:18hmmmah ok
14:28:21hmmmhmm
14:28:49FromDiscord<Deorder> Apparently I had to do `--hint[ConvFromXtoItselfNotNeeded]:off` instead
14:29:08FromDiscord<lqdev> ahh
14:29:10FromDiscord<lqdev> it's a hint
14:29:26FromDiscord<lqdev> yeah you have to look at whether it says `Hint:` `Warning:` or `Error`:
14:29:27FromDiscord<lqdev> (edit) "`Error`:" => "`Error:`"
14:30:27FromDiscord<Deorder> the vscode plugin seems to hide this detail
14:30:42FromDiscord<Deorder> (edit) "plugin" => "extension"
14:32:16FromDiscord<lqdev> possibly
14:32:51PrestigePMunch: sounds possible - 32 bit RPi?
14:32:57PMunchYes
14:43:45PMunchSo it's definitely smaller..
14:44:20PMunchNot that it really should matter
14:44:26PMunchAnd it doesn't explain why it sometimes work..
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14:59:47FromDiscord<Deorder> Can `nim.cfg` conditionally add flags according to the selected compiler?
15:00:26FromDiscord<Deorder> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/Fi2
15:00:42FromDiscord<Deorder> Searched online, looking at nim.cfg files from different projects, without luck
15:03:01FromDiscord<Deorder> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2NEw
15:04:03PMunchYes it can
15:04:07FromDiscord<Deorder> Should just talk to the teddybear next time 😄
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15:11:16saemUgh, why am I awake.
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15:12:48PMunchBecause you haven't gone to sleep yet
15:12:59saemI did, but could barely sleep
15:13:13saemWhich doesn't bode well for evening programming
15:13:17PMunchAh, that sucks
15:13:21saemBlah
15:14:33saemSigh, I still find the amount of effort I need to load the context of the compiler into my brain is still really high. So the lack of sleep is a killer.
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15:23:25kiwibirdlololwhich stdlib library would be the equivalent of python's multiprocessing?
15:23:41kiwibirdlolol(or can osproc launch procedures, rather than executables)
15:25:00PMunchthreads?
15:25:09FromDiscord<m_m> Hello. I have installed nim by choosenim on my ubuntu. Evetything was fine till the moment when I've tried to use any of the installed packages (for example leveldb). I am getting that nim cannot open a file "leveldb". What could be the reason?
15:25:26PMunchHow did you install the package?
15:25:39PMunchAnd how do you import it?
15:25:43kiwibirdlololPMunch: I want to control the stdin/out/err and use custom streams for them, osproc allows this
15:26:12FromDiscord<Rika> threads dont have a separate stdin/out/err
15:26:20PMunchstdin/out/err are concepts that only exists for executables..
15:26:48FromDiscord<m_m> @PMunch I have installed it by "nimble install" and I am importing it by "import leveldb"
15:27:24PMunchHmm, that is strange
15:28:09FromDiscord<dom96> @m_m are you compiling using `nim` or `nimble`?
15:28:25FromDiscord<m_m> @dom96 nimble
15:28:32FromDiscord<zetashift> ah, you gotta use nim for that
15:28:36FromDiscord<zetashift> nimble is for nimble packages
15:28:37FromDiscord<dom96> then you need to add `requires "leveldb"` to your .nimble file
15:28:48PMunch@zetashift, you can use nimble to compile
15:28:49FromDiscord<zetashift> or what dom96 said ^
15:28:55FromDiscord<m_m> I have added it with a version
15:29:19FromDiscord<m_m> I have "requires "nim >= 1.4.2", "leveldb >= 0.3.0"" in my nimble file
15:29:23FromDiscord<dom96> is the .nimble file in your CWD?
15:29:28FromDiscord<zetashift> @PMunch oh yes, I thought the file was being compiled as a simple nim file
15:29:48FromDiscord<m_m> I have generated my project by "nimble init"
15:29:59FromDiscord<m_m> So my nimble file is in the path of my project
15:30:26FromDiscord<dom96> that should work then, weird. You can see what Nimble is executing with the `--debug` flag
15:30:39FromDiscord<dom96> might give you some clues about what `--path`'s it's passing to Nim
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15:32:41FromDiscord<m_m> is it normal that it is using "nim c" with flag "--noNimblePath ?
15:32:55PMunchYes
15:33:10FromDiscord<m_m> Ok, it is adding the path of leveldb
15:33:15PMunchIt does that and passes all the packages you require in order to make sure you don't use something you don't require
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15:37:00FromDiscord<m_m> So, nim has the leveldb path but still I am getting the error.
15:40:25FromDiscord<m_m> Ok, I have checked with jester and it is working. So it is problem with "leveldb" lib for nim.
15:42:51PMunchMaybe try import leveldb/leveldb
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15:43:22FromDiscord<m_m> Still the same error.
15:43:46FromDiscord<dom96> @m_m have you checked what's in the path that is passed to Nim?
15:43:51FromDiscord<dom96> is there a leveldb.nim file there?
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15:44:21FromDiscord<m_m> @dom96 "--path:/home/michmajchrzak/.nimble/pkgs/leveldb-0.3.0"
15:45:08FromDiscord<m_m> @dom96 there is leveldb.nimble there and in the leveldb executable
15:45:30FromDiscord<m_m> wait a second....why executable ?
15:48:34ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by Tubbs: Trying to use times now, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/7445
15:59:14FromDiscord<m_m> It looks that nimble has install leveldb binary as a "leveldbtool" without wrappers.
16:01:00PMunchHmm, this is interesting: https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/7439
16:01:13PMunchAnd definitely reflects the feeling I have from hanging around on the IRC as well
16:02:42FromDiscord<zetashift> We got frontpage of HN a lot of times with some blogposts about Nim
16:02:49FromDiscord<zetashift> there might have been exposure from that
16:02:54PMunchCould be
16:03:00*William[m]1 left #nim ("User left")
16:03:17PMunchIf I get these times issues figured out I'll be writing some stuff on running Nim on HomeAssistant by the way
16:03:19FromDiscord<zetashift> Also some cool Nim projects on GitHub too
16:03:39FromDiscord<zetashift> @PMunch good luck!!
16:03:56PMunchIt's such a weird issue as well
16:04:05PMunchIt seems like it is the C localtime thing that messes up..
16:04:21PMunchBut it's not always, and it's only one project..
16:06:00*mmohammadi9812 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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16:10:15asdflkj2HN has definitely increased my interest in Nim
16:10:36asdflkj2But it was nitter.net that first got me interested
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16:21:04planetis[m]are Nim seqs mapped directly to Array in the js backend?
16:21:22planetis[m]would casting an Array to a seq work?
16:39:04FromDiscord<dom96> HN traffic usually gives sudden spikes
16:39:13FromDiscord<dom96> but this seems to be sustained for 2 months now
16:39:42FromDiscord<dom96> unless it's because our blog posts have been close enough to give that small bit of extra traffic month-over-month
16:40:03FromDiscord<zetashift> I inspected the generated JS from a simple nim file to see if it does, as far as I can tell, yes they map to `Arrays`
16:41:07FromDiscord<Rika> discord replies dont go over the bot
16:41:23FromDiscord<zetashift> ah force of habit to click the reply button
16:41:36FromDiscord<zetashift> but plantis will see it one day 😛
16:41:38planetis[m]yes i did that and it seems it does
16:41:44FromDiscord<zetashift> (edit) "plantis" => "planetis"
16:42:39planetis[m]must have been a codegen error, bc i was getting smth `nimCopy(null, null, myJson)` but now i don't remember the exact code that produced it..
16:43:42FromDiscord<zetashift> reading the generated JS, feels like the first time I ever read C++ code
16:43:55planetis[m]btw I think that nimforum can be sped up if we remove json imports from the frontend and use native jsonNodes
16:44:16FromDiscord<zetashift> Even faster!? Nice
16:44:21planetis[m]@dom96 are you accepting such a pr?
16:44:49planetis[m]Im not sure if its correct though
16:45:50planetis[m]yeah strings wouldn't work
16:46:06planetis[m]must convert every string to cstring first
16:54:44ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by Drkameleon: Problem with asynchttpserver and GC - yep, the usual one, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/7446
16:59:33FromDiscord<lqdev> @ElegantBeef hey beef, are submissions to this month's this month with nim closed already? i'd like to chip in
17:00:22FromDiscord<dom96> planetis: if you can show it's faster and it doesn't require tons of changes then sure
17:01:03FromDiscord<dom96> actually, IIRC the json module already uses native JS JSON parsing on the JS target
17:01:28disrupteklqdev: there's a new month coming along any day now.
17:02:10FromDiscord<lqdev> disruptek: yeah, but the things i wanna submit were made this month.
17:02:27disrupteknewsflash: no one gives a shit.
17:02:31FromDiscord<Rika> bruh
17:03:33FromDiscord<dom96> disruptek: not cool
17:04:17saemI've also seen some upticks in install numbers of the extension.
17:05:43disruptekno one cares when the code was written and no amount of contempt will convince me otherwise.
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17:21:30FromDiscord<Zachary Carter> I don't even find what Disruptek said to be offensive...
17:21:46FromDiscord<Zachary Carter> it was obviously in jest and wasn't personal or even insulting
17:22:12FromDiscord<Zachary Carter> they're just saying no one cares when the code for a "This month in Nim" submission was authored
17:24:31FromDiscord<Zachary Carter> And I agree with the sentiment - no one has to know when a submission was authored. I might do something this month in Nim, but not have time to write a blog post until next month. Does anyone really care? Probably not...
17:25:03FromDiscord<lqdev> good point
17:30:15FromDiscord<dom96> I understand the sentiment, but such strong language can be misinterpreted
17:32:04Zevvwell, we all know who is talking, right
17:35:22FromDiscord<dom96> I don't think so, we were just remarking about the newcomers to our community. There are always going to lurkers that aren't as active as probably the minority of us are.
17:35:29FromDiscord<dom96> (edit) "I don't think so, we were just remarking about the newcomers to our community. There are always going to ... lurkers" added "be"
17:37:40asdflkj2^
17:42:15disruptekzachary carter: how can i earn my sponsorship this month?
17:42:55disruptekthough i don't think they send me a check until late april or something. 🤷
17:44:51FromDiscord<Zachary Carter> lol I guess just keep doing what you're doing? I sponsored you because I think you do certain things that help the community, not because I want anything out of it.
17:45:09FromDiscord<Zachary Carter> you also do things that harm the community, like piss off dom, so just do less of that I guess?
17:45:15disruptekah fuck.
17:45:31disruptekis it possible to reject sponsorship? 🤔
17:45:37FromDiscord<Zachary Carter> lol
17:46:40FromDiscord<Zachary Carter> Let's just all try to respect one another and keep in mind that we all have varying levels of comfort with one another. If anyone has a problem with another community member, bring it to a mod or admin and let them deal with it 🙂
17:47:18disruptekwow, there really isn't a good way to disable a sponsor.
17:48:44FromDiscord<Rika> forceful acceptance of money
17:49:00disrupteksrsly
17:49:35asdflkj2GitHub sponsorship?
17:50:17disruptek~disruptek
17:50:18disbotdisruptek: 11broke: https://github.com/sponsors/disruptek -- disruptek
17:50:18disbotdisruptek: 11:disruptek:
17:50:18disbotdisruptek: 11an unsafe nil deref
17:50:18FromDiscord<Zachary Carter> I mean, I will take my $18 back if you really don't want it lol
17:50:30disruptekyou mean /this/ $14?
17:50:40FromDiscord<Zachary Carter> oh sorry it's $16
17:50:41FromDiscord<Zachary Carter> my bad
17:51:03disrupteki am --> this <-- close to covering my starlink subscription cost.
17:51:19disruptekstreaming will resume in less than a week.
17:51:36FromDiscord<Zachary Carter> dude..., satellite internet?
17:51:40disruptekindeed.
17:51:48FromDiscord<Zachary Carter> I'm sorry...
17:52:12disruptekit should be pretty great. it's not like the exceed/hughes stuff.
17:52:28FromDiscord<Zachary Carter> I'm spoiled, I have google fiber
17:52:30disrupteki've used those, too.
17:53:01disruptekthe bandwidth is similar, it's just a little worse latency.
17:53:31FromDiscord<Zachary Carter> I rescinded a contract I put on a house I was going to buy, because I could only get sat internet
17:53:36FromDiscord<Zachary Carter> Starlink wasn't a thing back then though either
17:55:17disruptekit's a game-changer.
17:57:07disrupteklqdev: you're in the top-5 nim coders, afaic. you know i have mad respect for you, right?
17:58:25asdflkj2I can believe StarLink literally changes gaming, that’s where latency is most important ;)
18:05:00*awe00 quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
18:05:51FromDiscord<dom96> Starlink will be a game changer for one of my dreams: living in a cottage in Ireland/Wales/Scotland. Happy Elon's on it.
18:06:10FromDiscord<dom96> For now I managed to nab an apartment with FTTH internet
18:06:49FromDiscord<zetashift> sounds hella cosy
18:26:20planetis[m]disruptek: who's the top 5? now you got me jealous
18:26:42disruptekyou don't know them.
18:27:32planetis[m]ok if i have to guess: disruptek, disruptek, disruptek, disruptek, lqdev
18:27:47PrestigeYou forgot PMunch
18:28:16Prestigebut the rest in
18:28:25Prestigeis probably right
18:31:12FromDiscord<VVX7> where can I find a list of defined compile time symbols?
18:32:20FromDiscord<Rika> prolly system's docs
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18:55:06disrupteki'm not in the top five.
19:02:47*hmmm joined #nim
19:03:20hmmmhello nimions
19:03:25hmmmwhere is disruptek
19:03:31hmmmI must enquire on cps status
19:03:42disruptekask clyybber.
19:03:47hmmmwat
19:03:58hmmmyou are the head of research of the cps endevour
19:04:00hmmmI ask u
19:04:01PrestigeThere are bugs that need to be fixed before he can contiue iirc
19:04:13Prestigeor continue
19:04:41disrupteki'm waiting for the support we were all promised in the RFC to materialize.
19:04:53hmmmyou have my moral support :o
19:05:08disruptekdo you have a job?
19:05:15hmmmnu I'm student
19:05:22disruptekwhy?
19:05:36hmmmhmmm is this a philosophical enquiry?
19:05:51disruptekhmmm no.
19:05:57hmmmoh
19:17:28PrestigeI think we should open up a Nim apparel shop that just sells things with disruptek quotes on them
19:20:47FromDiscord<VVX7> I would buy Nim apparel
19:22:38hmmm~disruptesque
19:22:39disbotdisruptesque: 11the art of telling it as it is
19:24:17planetis[m]which html attributes can't be written as nim identifiers without stropping? is it just `for`?
19:28:31disruptekattributes are fairly arbitrary, so i would guess not.
19:28:51planetis[m]im refactoring html2karax, btw
19:32:32planetis[m]I wonder if there is a way to do it the other way around, with a list of nim keywords
19:34:29FromDiscord<exelotl> lmao I'm now imagining a mug featuring the Nim logo with the word "throbs" underneath it
19:36:22disrupteki would make such an animal if someone would buy it.
19:39:42Prestige~repo throbs
19:39:42disbotno footnotes for `repo`. 🙁
19:39:55Prestigewait how does this bot work
19:40:34disruptekdo !help
19:40:35hmmmhttps://i.imgur.com/eH0A7ya.jpg
19:40:41Prestige!help
19:40:43hmmmpreorders 10$
19:40:50Prestige~help
19:40:54Prestigeoh
19:41:12Prestigethat's awesome
19:41:17Prestige!repo throbs
19:41:18hmmmI agree :D
19:41:19disbothttps://github.com/aino/throbber.js -- 9throbber.js: 11Throbbing canvas with style 15 69⭐ 19🍴 7& 29 more...
19:43:16PrestigeI thought !repo should only search Nim repos
19:43:38disruptekif it can't find anything nim-related, it will search more broadly.
19:43:45Prestigeah.
19:44:32planetis[m]dumb question, why does the htmlparser adds whitespace https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/pure/htmlparser.nim#L1965 to the XmlNode tree?
19:44:55planetis[m]at first i though it was a bug
19:45:28planetis[m]but it seems on purpose
19:48:34disruptekwe don't call it whitespace anymore; that's racist.
19:48:36*mmohammadi9812 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
19:48:44disrupteknow it's called masterspace.
19:48:49leorizewasn't htmlparser moved to fusion?
19:48:51disruptekor, wait, maybe i have that wrong.
19:48:58disruptekit's called mainspace.
19:49:15hmmmmainspace is the long version of myspace
19:49:36disrupteki'm pretty close to mainespace right now and, yeah, it's not very diverse.
19:50:37hmmmdisruptek are you from that sophisticated distopya they call murrica?
19:50:56disruptekno, i'm an extraterrestrial from the planet xantu.
19:51:11PrestigeWell that would explain all the throbbing, then
19:51:13hmmmI see, that explains things
19:51:23disruptekyeah, it sucks.
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19:55:50planetis[m]leorize: i dont see any deprecation warning!?
19:56:29leorizeask Araq
19:57:01leorizeAraq is actually offline today, weird
19:57:06hmmmleorize you are a good boi, I'm using your nvim plugin and it's awesome
19:57:16hmmmI'm a fan
19:57:52hmmmthe fact that things become red when I can't use them is a major time saver
19:58:01leorizeglad you like it :)
19:58:08hmmm<333
19:58:18leorizeI should add linting at one point :P
19:58:27oddparaq is meeting with some former mozilla employees about a position in the rust core team. was announced on twitter.
20:00:00Prestigedon't lie to me like that
20:02:32oddpsorry, all that gme stock got to me.
20:07:43planetis[m]Here it's https://gist.github.com/planetis-m/9ba3081701d280e3972d31dc4d4d3bc5 if you want to try it.
20:08:58disrupteki don't think i'd use nim if it weren't for leorize's plugin.
20:09:30*adnan338 joined #nim
20:09:54PrestigeWhat would you use instead of Nim?
20:10:36disruptekclojure.
20:10:53hmmmleo plugin is much better than vscode extension thingy imo, I used both. Actually I switched to vim just to use the leo plugin lol
20:13:07*mahlon_ quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
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20:13:21leorizeit's not, it's just that nvim is a superior editor :)
20:14:32PrestigeTrue that
20:15:16PrestigeI've been watching a coworker fumble around in vscode all week, it's painful
20:15:57hmmmwell fumbling in vim ain't pretty too. You old dudes with years of muscle memory have it easy
20:17:12disruptekthere are downsides, too; just try to teach my old fingers a new trick -- it's impossible.
20:17:45Clonkk[m]There was a good vim tutorial in Onivim version 1
20:18:05disruptekoh, are we talking about editors?
20:18:19hmmmwhat is onivim
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20:21:19ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by Aeldemery: Newbie question: allowed and not allowed white space, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/7448
20:24:47FromDiscord<Rika> it only took me a month or less to learn basic vim usage
20:27:08hmmmI wish I were you, I'm almost at my first month and I'm painful slow at moving around. Also copypasting is the worse pain point. Every time I need to do it I wish I had a mouse
20:27:43FromDiscord<Rika> my current pain point right now is moving a split just one increment
20:27:43leorizeyou can use a mouse in nvim fwiw
20:27:48FromDiscord<Rika> instead of the other fucking side
20:27:53hmmmwat
20:28:01leorize:set mouse=a
20:28:01hmmmbut that's cheating
20:28:10FromDiscord<Rika> :set mouse=nvi
20:28:12FromDiscord<Rika> or something
20:28:21disruptekmoving a split?
20:28:27FromDiscord<Rika> yeah
20:28:33disruptekwhat's a split?
20:28:48FromDiscord<Rika> the thing you get when you :vs or :Ve o
20:28:50FromDiscord<Rika> (edit) removed "o"
20:29:10disruptekand what do you want to do to it?
20:29:53FromDiscord<Rika> move it only a single split instead of moving it to the left/right/top/bottommost side
20:30:21FromDiscord<Rika> (which is ^w[HJKL])
20:30:53disruptekwhat does it mean to move it "only a single split"?
20:31:22disruptekswap it with an adjacent pane?
20:31:50FromDiscord<Rika> yeah
20:34:30hmmmoh jesus, set mouse is incredibly comfy :O
20:34:38hmmm:OOOO
20:34:40FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> As long as there is a calendar the submissons are open
20:35:02FromDiscord<Rika> https://github.com/wesQ3/vim-windowswap apparently needs a plugin
20:35:05FromDiscord<Rika> okay
20:35:07FromDiscord<Rika> great
20:35:12FromDiscord<Rika> whatever
20:46:46FromDiscord<exelotl> ugh I'm having a real hard time implementing a panicoverride that works both in a static block and at runtime :(
20:47:40FromDiscord<exelotl> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2NGc
20:47:56FromDiscord<exelotl> this fails in the VM because `s` cannot be evaluated at compile time
20:48:20FromDiscord<exelotl> is there any other way to error out with a message in the VM?
20:55:38FromDiscord<lqdev> make `s` a `static cstring` perhaps?
20:59:36FromDiscord<exelotl> tried that but panic is called by `sysFatal` which passes in a non-static string
21:00:12FromDiscord<exelotl> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2NGf
21:00:47FromDiscord<exelotl> had to raise an exception the hard way because `newException` doesn't exist when this code runs 😅
21:07:23FromDiscord<exelotl> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2NGj
21:07:49FromDiscord<exelotl> no question about if/where the string -> cstring conversion happens
21:11:30FromDiscord<alehander42> @Clyybber @Zachary Carter
21:11:39FromDiscord<alehander42> i thanked for the osdev referenee
21:11:43FromDiscord<alehander42> haha
21:11:47FromDiscord<alehander42> but yeah
21:11:51FromDiscord<alehander42> i dont maintain that fornow
21:11:53FromDiscord<alehander42> (edit) "fornow" => "for now"
21:11:57FromDiscord<Clyybber> ah :D
21:14:57*muffindrake joined #nim
21:23:34FromDiscord<dom96> > https://irclogs.nim-lang.org/29-01-2021.html#19:48:34↵disruptek: I’d appreciate it if you don’t post things like this in response to genuine questions.
21:26:40leorizeI think it's fine to joke around a bit
21:27:23FromDiscord<Ardek> #ffffffspace
21:33:00FromDiscord<dom96> I don’t care if it was meant as a joke or not. Nobody should get that as a response to their question. We’re meant to be attracting newcomers not scaring them away.
21:37:22disruptekwhy don't you put your money where your mouth is and fix your shitty software?
21:37:41disrupteknothing turns off newcomers like dogshit.
21:38:51disruptekgenuine question: why do you think it's okay to criticize others when your work is so bad that it drags down an entire language, let alone an irc community?
21:44:46FromDiscord<konsumlamm> if disruptek was the first person i saw when checking out nim, i'm not sure i would have chosen to learn it...
21:45:14disruptekhow sad for us all.
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21:46:58planetis[m]🍿
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21:47:23disruptekwe're not allowed to fight in here anymore because it's more scary than nimble.
21:48:06*Araq joined #nim
21:48:43planetis[m]ohh oh
21:49:11*dom96 joined #nim
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21:49:23planetis[m]here goes the hammer
21:49:44disruptekit's amazing how long it takes them to learn how to /ban.
21:49:58FromGitter<Araq> yeah yeah, on it
21:50:06FromGitter<Araq> needed to switch computers
21:50:07disruptekisn't there a document on the wiki?
21:51:01disruptekhttps://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/wiki/IRC-guidelines
21:53:13leorizehow can I not import `system/io`?
21:54:02disruptekmaybe shadow it?
21:54:56leorizenot sure how, tried `import system except io`, doesn't work
21:55:24disrupteksupply a path to a different io.nim; does the compiler import std/io?
21:57:02leorizethat wouldn't work, io is imported by system.nim
21:57:18Araqthere is --define:nimNoIO or similar, iirc
21:57:26leorizeand Araq kicked disruptek :P
21:57:44leorizeAraq: I'm writing a library, so that wouldn't work
21:58:07leorizeI'm just gonna qualify my types then
21:58:27Araqsure but consider that io.nim will be removed from system.nim
21:58:31Araqmost probably.
22:02:02leorizeyou can keep disbot around, it's very useful
22:11:03FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> hello hello everyone
22:12:04FromDiscord<alehander42> Araq
22:12:05FromDiscord<alehander42> heyy
22:12:48FromGitter<Araq> hi
22:12:58FromDiscord<alehander42> wow you're on gitter
22:13:09FromDiscord<alehander42> life changed
22:13:29FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> Gitter is the future ;P
22:13:52FromDiscord<alehander42> i am mostly off nim these days, did you guys rework the nil stuff or does it wait better days
22:14:26FromDiscord<alehander42> yeah i dont know Avatarfighter 😄 i am mostly trying editors these days
22:14:53FromDiscord<alehander42> is fosdem soon?
22:15:03FromDiscord<alehander42> i read pmunch talks there 🙂
22:15:25FromGitter<Araq> alehander42: I hope you fix reported bugs
22:15:36FromDiscord<dom96> Araq: you should switch to Discord, much better
22:15:41FromGitter<Araq> don't want to announce it unless you're around
22:15:43FromDiscord<dom96> Gitter is very likely to die
22:16:03FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> lmao dom
22:16:07FromDiscord<alehander42> Araq i have to enter a call next week to see what is needed
22:17:15FromGitter<Araq> we don't know what is needed, chicken and egg
22:18:13FromGitter<Araq> ideally you tell people on the forum about .experimental: "strictNotNil"
22:18:19FromDiscord<alehander42> ok, so i can take a look and tell you
22:18:35FromDiscord<alehander42> iirc a limited version was to be released first
22:18:37FromGitter<Araq> and look at their bug reports, problems, etc
22:19:03FromDiscord<alehander42> which is fast enough for recompiling the compiler without some of the more "advanced" stuff
22:20:06FromGitter<Araq> @dom96 will switch to Discord when gitter is dead. maybe earlier
22:20:30FromDiscord<dom96> Discord also gives you voice chat for free
22:20:50FromDiscord<dom96> in case you ever wanna chat with your fans
22:21:36FromDiscord<alehander42> ok Araq let's set it up like that
22:22:43FromDiscord<alehander42> i will take a look next week and I can join the call on 5th february (friday)
22:22:43FromDiscord<alehander42> to update
22:22:48FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> Araq: we even have cool emoticons on discord, the future is now 😛
22:23:54FromGitter<Araq> alehander42: call time changed to 10:00 in the morning
22:24:20FromGitter<Araq> we can schedule it earlier if you prefer
22:25:22FromDiscord<alehander42> yeah, my job morning call is from 9:30, so i just wouldnt be able to probably
22:25:47FromDiscord<alehander42> we can just have a call in the evening if you prefer
22:25:54FromDiscord<alehander42> (edit) "we can just have a ... call" added "short"
22:26:31FromGitter<Araq> 9:00 is fine, 8:00 is fine
22:29:58FromDiscord<alehander42> 8:00 then ?
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22:31:53FromGitter<Araq> ok
22:33:20FromDiscord<alehander42> good
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22:51:44FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> leorize: have you had any luck with your cps shenanigans ?
22:52:32federico3https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25957307 a thread on Pony's safety
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22:59:17FromDiscord<zetashift> I wonder why their way of concurrent programming could not be implemented as a library
22:59:34FromDiscord<zetashift> (I do not know much about concurrent programming in general)
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23:07:11FromGitter<Araq> we have pony's programming model (wip), see Isolated[T]
23:08:23FromDiscord<dom96> The article writes itself: "We have Pony's programming model" 😄
23:09:02oddpthe whole set of pony ref caps? would be slick.
23:09:23FromDiscord<konsumlamm> (wip)
23:10:57FromDiscord<dom96> hah
23:11:40FromDiscord<dom96> That reminds me of V's marketing style
23:11:42FromGitter<Araq> for more details ask Clyybber, he is our Pony expert
23:11:46FromDiscord<konsumlamm> lmao
23:11:47FromGitter<Araq> good night
23:12:05FromDiscord<konsumlamm> idk, i feel like half of nim's features are wip
23:12:26FromDiscord<konsumlamm> V was like "we have feature X"
23:12:26leorize[m]Avatarfighter I'm waiting for disruptek to implement return value for cps
23:12:41FromDiscord<konsumlamm> " actually not, it's just on our wishlust"
23:12:50FromDiscord<konsumlamm> (edit) "wishlust"" => "wishlist""
23:14:24FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> leorize: ah, where is disruptek anyways? He isn't as chatty today as per usual
23:14:53leorize[m]Avatarfighter Araq just pulled the ban hammer on him again
23:15:06FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> oh rip
23:17:01FromDiscord<Yardanico> No more red dogs
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23:20:01FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> wait why did his emoji get removed
23:20:07FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> :disruptek: was a staple of this discord
23:20:14FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> I need my robot emoji
23:20:15FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> @dom96 what do you use async for in stardust?
23:20:46FromDiscord<dom96> For client-server communication
23:21:01FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> So something applicable 😄
23:21:23FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Most of my stuff doesnt have much reason to do it aside from "Hey you could have loading screen for level generation" 😄
23:21:25FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> Does importing procs from dlls work with arc/orc I can't remember?
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23:21:49FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Why wouldnt it?
23:21:55FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> iirc a long time ago someone said it doesn't lol
23:22:05FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> It works even easier as you dont need to setup the GC
23:22:09FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> ooo
23:22:13FromDiscord<konsumlamm> btw, anyone wanna look at #12595? it sounds pretty easy to fix and it breaks using collect for tables in templates
23:22:32FromDiscord<konsumlamm> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/12595
23:22:34FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> Beef, have you messed with importing dlls and stuffs
23:22:36FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> 12595 is a larger number it's 1 larger than 12594
23:22:40FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Nope
23:22:45FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> 😭
23:22:50FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Dynlibs arent difficult though
23:22:54FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> yeah i know
23:23:17FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> nim doesn't have dll loading from memory right? I'd have to program that myself?
23:23:27FromDiscord<zetashift> I don't agree with this, concepts/ARC are the only things I can think of. Arguably you could say IC too but that's more tooling than a feature
23:23:31FromDiscord<dom96> @ElegantBeef for most games you likely don't need async, but then you also don't need threads 🙂
23:23:41FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I wasnt using threads for my game
23:23:44leorize[m]we have a module called dynlibs
23:23:54FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Also have https://github.com/genotrance/plugins
23:24:42FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> leorize: I am aware of dynlibs, I don't think it supports loading dlls from memory though iirc
23:24:45FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> loading up the docs rn
23:24:46FromDiscord<Yardanico> @ElegantBeef that package doesn't work with arc
23:25:07leorize[m]Avatarfighter wdym dlls from memory?
23:25:16FromDiscord<konsumlamm> concepts, not nil, static generic parameters. parallelism
23:25:40FromDiscord<konsumlamm> but i'm probably too critical, because i find those to be the most interesting features
23:26:14leorize[m]not nil is being finished fwiw
23:26:34FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> leorize: https://www.joachim-bauch.de/tutorials/loading-a-dll-from-memory/
23:26:41FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Didnt concepts also get reworked already, just waiting for testing?
23:27:24FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Cant you just use mmap to make it in the FS then load it there?
23:27:33FromDiscord<dom96> yeah, I wouldn't say that's half of Nim's features
23:27:34FromDiscord<zetashift> fair points, I don't think this constitues "half of nim's features" but I wish to see these finished as well, but for an open-source projects, manpower is limited
23:27:48FromDiscord<dom96> the core language is already very powerful
23:28:56leorize[m]Avatarfighter looks to be complicated and potentially a ground for security issues
23:29:16FromDiscord<konsumlamm> ye, as i said, i'm probably too critical
23:29:39FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> leorize: its complicated and a security issue, but i need it and I guess I need to program it 😛
23:31:31FromDiscord<konsumlamm> not nil is being finished? last i looked at it it sounded like it was postponed
23:31:57leorize[m]~notnil
23:32:05leorize[m]oh wait disbot is banned
23:32:12FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> :L
23:32:30FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> is disruptek's ban permanent ?
23:33:15leorize[m]@konsumlamm https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/manual_experimental#strict-not-nil-checking
23:33:42FromDiscord<zetashift> It's out of lllooooovvvee for seeing these features finished
23:33:59leorize[m]Avatarfighter I'm not sure. The chain leading to his ban is only a few hours ago if you wanna read on it
23:34:20FromDiscord<zetashift> probably not permanent
23:34:29FromDiscord<zetashift> but I hope the bickering get's fixed
23:34:31FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> Yep, I'll dig up the chain I think I read it I didn't realize he got banned though
23:35:24FromDiscord<dk> Does anyone else have nimsuggest chimp out on a file when I only do --backend:js but not setCommand "js"?↵Couldn't get a minimal example yet↵chimp out = illformed AST: but the code compiles
23:43:41FromDiscord<Meowz> Does anyone have an Idea how I could return any type without using generics? (nimpy doesn't supports generics). https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2NHd
23:45:38FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Object variants or https://github.com/Carpall/nobject
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23:50:39FromDiscord<gcao> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2NHh
23:51:32FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> `=destroy` body should call a.dealloc()
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23:55:45FromDiscord<gcao> yes. as long as I implement `=destroy` correctly, Nim will handle the rest (when `a` goes out of scope, `=destroy` will be called and `A.data` will be freed), right?
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