<< 01-08-2020 >>

---

00:00:04	FromGitter	<singularperturbation> https://irclogs.nim-lang.org/23-04-2019.html#19:30:56 think that what I want to do is currently not possible with system.default
00:01:32	*	krux02 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
00:01:34	disruptek	or maybe i'm forgetting something.
00:02:14	outtabwz	if i mutate a parameter var within a func it actually mutates global variables of the same name
00:02:25	outtabwz	weird
00:03:27	FromDiscord	<Varriount> outtabwz: Can you post a link to an example?
00:03:36	disruptek	j$: you're right; i use a macro to solve that.
00:03:54	outtabwz	Varriount: gimme a couple minutes please
00:04:00	disruptek	macro enumValues(e: typed): untyped = newNimNode(nnkCurly).add(e.getType[1][1..^1])
00:04:19	disruptek	see usage in gittyup.
00:04:21	disruptek	!repo gittyup
00:04:22	disbot	https://github.com/disruptek/gittyup -- 9gittyup: 11higher-level git bindings that build upon nimgit2 15 2⭐ 1🍴
00:04:33	*	SenasOzys quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:14:57	outtabwz	Varriount: https://paste.call-cc.org/paste?id=ead7702d403e164aedf32f2a2c520834f9e30a25
00:15:13	outtabwz	It's definitely not what I would expect.
00:17:17	disruptek	why not?
00:18:07	disruptek	you passed it the variable and then you mutated it.
00:18:48	FromDiscord	<j$> feels bad, seems like there's a uint16 size limit to tables
00:19:08	outtabwz	I don't expect a func parameter var to represent the same memory location as a global var
00:19:20	disruptek	then don't pass a global to it.
00:19:45	outtabwz	maybe it shouldn't be called a function if it can change global state
00:19:47	disruptek	you can have millions of entries in tables.
00:19:57	disruptek	outtabwz: there's an rfc about this.
00:20:09	outtabwz	sure, i'll read
00:20:12	disruptek	actually, i think the change might be in devel already.
00:21:04	disruptek	remove the var keyword from the proc param and set result instead.
00:21:15	disruptek	~manual
00:21:15	disbot	manual: 11the Nim Manual is https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html -- disruptek
00:21:26	outtabwz	right
00:21:28	outtabwz	ty
00:21:48	disruptek	i agree that `func` should break on that code.
00:29:32	FromDiscord	<j$> seems like enum values can only range of 0 to 65535?
00:29:45	disruptek	yep.
00:30:01	FromDiscord	<j$> okay so that's my issues with this macro
00:30:24	disruptek	what are you trying to do? besides the obvious.
00:34:04	FromDiscord	<j$> Trying to make a list of sdl keycodes. They are stored in an non ordinal enum so I cant loop through it, but the range of possible values exceeds that range, but I think I'll just try something else. I'm stepping into xy problem territory
00:35:03	disruptek	you can use intsets if you care about combinations, else... they are just integers, right?
00:35:17	FromDiscord	<j$> yeah
00:35:23	disruptek	i wouldn't overthink it.
00:35:30	disruptek	i mean, i would, but i wish i wouldn't.
00:35:41	FromDiscord	<j$> yeah I need to eat, so I'll probably comeback to it
00:39:48	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> is there any proc for converting the result of `1 shl 2` to hex?
00:40:04	FromDiscord	<Elegant Beef> strutils has tohex iirc
00:40:21	FromDiscord	<Elegant Beef> Unless you mean as a hex number 😄
00:40:30	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> yeah I mean as a hex number not a hex string
00:40:59	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> at the end of the day it doesn't matter - but I'm generating bindings so if I wanted the values to match the C code
00:41:12	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> meh screw it - it's not worth the trouble
00:41:17	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> (1 shl 2) works fine
00:41:41	disruptek	been awhile since there was a bug in it.
00:41:50	disruptek	but actually, there /was/ a bug in it.
00:41:55	disruptek	well, for int128.
00:55:04	FromDiscord	<Kiloneie> @Araq Btw for your future laptop purchase, get one with at least 6 cores from AMD.↵Check this link(i can't read german but i figured it out how to filter for you) https://geizhals.at/?cat=nb&bpmin=600&bpmax=1200&v=e&hloc=de&fcols=6751&sort=t&bl1_id=30&xf=10929_FreeDOS%7E1482_AMD
00:59:35	FromDiscord	<Kiloneie> Also 4XXX series cpus, get the one with one of those.
01:02:06	*	tiorock joined #nim
01:02:06	*	rockcavera is now known as Guest58241
01:02:06	*	tiorock is now known as rockcavera
01:03:55	Prestige	PMunch has been gone far too long
01:04:05	disruptek	!last pmunch
01:04:06	disbot	PMunch quit 73 weeks ago and last spoke 3 weeks ago
01:05:42	FromDiscord	<Elegant Beef> He's on vacation, but i agree
01:05:47	*	Guest58241 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:14:10	*	maier joined #nim
01:14:49	*	apahl_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
01:16:16	*	apahl joined #nim
01:19:08	*	maier quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
01:32:12	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> do I really have to write a proc signature here to borrow `or` ?
01:32:12	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2sPs
01:32:43	*	lritter joined #nim
01:33:26	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> or is there a simpler way of doing this?
01:33:31	Prestige	or cast to int maybe?
01:33:53	Prestige	https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2sPt
01:34:35	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> well yeah but that's even more annoying
01:35:16	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> I guess I'll just generate a converter for all of these
01:41:21	*	krux02_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
02:00:26	disruptek	Zevv: look at this: http://ix.io/2sPz/nim
02:04:41	disruptek	i mean, i had no idea it was even possible.
02:08:26	ForumUpdaterBot	New thread by Oyster: Hard to load this forum, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/6627
02:08:43	disruptek	Zevv: here's a working version that demonstrates the problem nonetheless: http://ix.io/2sPB/nim
02:09:23	disruptek	or maybe it's just a rendering "feature"?
02:16:14	*	audiofile joined #nim
02:18:23	*	vicfred quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:42:11	*	lritter quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:43:03	*	lritter joined #nim
02:48:53	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> shashlick: think I found another issue with nimterop
02:49:01	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> trying to wrap: https://github.com/zeux/volk
02:50:37	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> https://gist.github.com/zacharycarter/adfb3940a3b8357655671ffe9626bbbb
02:51:55	shashlick	what's the error
02:52:30	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> actually one moment
02:52:34	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> I might just be missing another define
02:54:03	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> Error: undeclared identifier: 'PFN_vkAllocateCommandBuffers'
02:54:06	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> (edit) 'Error:' => '`Error:' | ''PFN_vkAllocateCommandBuffers'' => ''PFN_vkAllocateCommandBuffers'`'
02:54:12	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> adding the define didn't help
02:54:58	shashlick	its not defined anywhere in the code
02:55:12	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> well it is in the header file
02:55:26	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> oh I see
02:55:52	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> I probably need to also include vulkan.h, let me give that a shot
02:57:35	shashlick	what version of nimterop do you have - I get that error - ERROR: vulkan/vulkan.h: No such file or directory
02:57:52	*	theelous3 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:58:07	*	audiofile quit (Quit: Default Quit Message)
03:01:02	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> 0.6.6
03:01:10	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> but I think this is because that header relies on symbols defined in vulkan
03:01:16	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> which you need installed on your machine
03:01:20	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> like the sdk
03:02:10	shashlick	okay
03:02:25	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> the thing is though - I don't want to have nimterop wrap vulkan too
03:02:29	*	muffindrake quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
03:02:37	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> so maybe I should just build a static library and link it
03:02:47	*	Tlanger joined #nim
03:02:52	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> that's probably the easiest way to go about this
03:04:12	*	muffindrake joined #nim
03:04:55	*	Tongir quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:05:03	shashlick	you can exclude stuff now
03:05:38	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> yeah but do I have to be explicit about what exclude? or can I exclude an entire header file?
03:05:44	shashlick	https://nimterop.github.io/nimterop/cimport.html#cExclude.m
03:05:51	shashlick	an entire header works
03:10:57	FromDiscord	<j$> how would I make a macro have default parameter value, used as a block?
03:12:50	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Nim parameters support default values, though I've never seen them used with a macro
03:15:03	*	maier joined #nim
03:18:31	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> hmm shashlick: still a bit confused here - I need to `cImport` the file so that the symbols in the other file which reference them are able to resolve
03:18:46	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> however then the header gets generated - and I tried `cExclude` but it doesn't seem to help in this scenario
03:18:58	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> I don't think there's a good answer here
03:19:15	shashlick	Are the types defined separately
03:19:18	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> it's like I need to import a third party Nim module
03:19:23	shashlick	Or all together
03:20:03	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> I guess separately - since `PFN_vkAllocateCommandBuffer` doesn't exist anywhere in that codebase apparently
03:20:03	*	maier quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
03:20:32	shashlick	You can also do -s in flags
03:20:45	shashlick	That way toast will create stubs for all these types
03:20:55	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> hmm okay I can give that a shot
03:21:32	shashlick	What I do is generate a wrapper with stubs then pick and choose the ones I really need in cOverride
03:21:44	*	waleee-cl quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
03:22:36	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> oh...
03:22:42	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> it is actually defined in this library, it's an alias
03:22:42	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> https://github.com/zeux/volk/blob/79c7627887a9de3775fe80fc316dfb716c226c70/volk.h#L595
03:25:40	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> so this indeed seems like a bug
03:25:51	shashlick	That's not a type definition
03:26:13	shashlick	That's a var
03:27:00	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> oh shit you're right, my bad
03:27:01	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> ugh
03:33:30	*	def- quit (Quit: -)
03:39:39	*	NimBot joined #nim
03:40:26	*	casaca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
04:06:02	*	supakeen quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
04:06:41	*	supakeen joined #nim
04:14:57	*	casaca joined #nim
05:08:33	*	narimiran joined #nim
05:15:57	*	maier joined #nim
05:21:16	*	maier quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
05:34:35	*	def- joined #nim
05:35:05	*	Tlanger quit (Quit: Leaving)
05:49:28	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> well shashlick: I think I have a better understanding of the problem
05:49:44	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> the header I'm wrapping expects symbols to be defined in another header file
05:49:55	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> and in my case they're defined in another wrapped library
05:50:56	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> using stubs & cOverride doesn't make sense here - because there are a lot of dependent symbols
05:51:14	FromDiscord	<Zachary Carter> I'll have to mess with trying to import or include the dependent module in the wrapper and see what happens
06:18:11	*	solitudesf joined #nim
06:44:09	*	zacts quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
06:44:48	*	narimiran quit (Quit: leaving)
06:58:21	*	zacts joined #nim
06:58:35	zacts	is much of the nim language implemented in nim itself?
06:58:43	zacts	(kind of like lisp in this sense maybe)
06:58:55	zacts	raku is like this. I'm looking for a language like this.
06:59:18	zacts	altho I realize that nim has totally different aims than raku
07:01:09	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Yes, all of the Nim compiler is in Nim
07:01:13	zacts	oh nice
07:01:16	zacts	thanks
07:01:28	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> And all of the stdlib (although some modules are wrappers over other libraries)
07:01:34	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> But most of the stdlib is pure Nim
07:01:36	zacts	I'll definitely put nim on my list of languages to check out for some future project ideas of mine.
07:02:12	zacts	I like how nim seems to be more lightweight than Rust
07:02:54	zacts	oh I see this too https://nim-lang.org/docs/nimc.html
07:03:39	zacts	nim is kind of what I'm looking for I think
07:05:04	*	zacts quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
07:12:26	*	SenasOzys joined #nim
07:17:20	*	maier joined #nim
07:19:38	*	Guest14718 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
07:21:58	*	maier quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
07:24:25	voltist	Zevv: Did you see that gist I sent with the broken FITS reader?
07:24:30	*	letto quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
07:28:29	*	letto joined #nim
07:29:31	ForumUpdaterBot	New thread by Jasonfi: Which version of OpenSSL to get QuickJWT linking?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/6628
07:35:48	*	endragor joined #nim
07:48:37	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Anyone have an idea of how much memory Nim tends to consume when building something like Nimble?
07:48:49	FromDiscord	<Varriount> (on linux)
07:50:43	FromDiscord	<Rika> i was able to build it on a raspberry pi 4 with 2gb of ram
08:04:43	*	endragor quit (Remote host closed the connection)
08:12:21	*	endragor joined #nim
08:42:57	*	nikita` joined #nim
09:23:25	*	solitudesf quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
09:50:44	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> no one's here, everyone's sleeping or relaxing? 🤔
09:50:49	Oddmonger	is it possible to call a function when a seq assignation is asked ?
09:50:53	supakeen	What is a nice way to include examples in my repository so they can be built easily.
09:51:02	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> lol
09:51:11	supakeen	Yardanico: You asked for it ;)
09:51:29	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> @oddmonger you mean overload a[x] = y ?
09:51:44	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> That's the []= operator
09:51:49	Oddmonger	like this: var mytype.list == @[ … ]
09:52:05	Oddmonger	yes overload, but only for a type
09:52:08	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> What would that mean?
09:52:09	Oddmonger	that's not clear for me
09:52:14	Oddmonger	as you see :)
09:52:31	Oddmonger	i try to explain better
09:53:08	Oddmonger	i have a «constructor»: let mytype = Mytype( … )
09:53:19	Oddmonger	in this type, there is a seq
09:53:31	*	Ven`` joined #nim
09:53:48	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Yeah, so?
09:53:49	Oddmonger	which could (in the best way) initilized by the assignation
09:54:07	Oddmonger	but i didn't found how to initialize
09:54:31	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> You don't have to initialize seqs if you mean that
09:54:33	Oddmonger	so i'm trying the next step: overloading the [] actces
09:54:44	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> And if you want to assign a seq when constructing it's simple
09:54:48	Oddmonger	actces/access
09:54:52	*	endragor quit (Remote host closed the connection)
09:55:01	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> let f = MyType(myseq: @[1, 2, 3])
09:55:05	*	endragor joined #nim
09:55:07	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Where myseq is a field in MyType
09:55:29	Oddmonger	yes but i have to compute the seq
09:55:52	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Based on other fields in a type? Or what?
09:55:53	Oddmonger	myseq is derivated from a value given at construction
09:56:16	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Why not just create your custom constructor then? Like initFoo or newFoo
09:56:18	Oddmonger	so i have to call a constructor (a real i mean, cannot assign it directly)
09:56:48	Oddmonger	i'm doing my homework in fact, i cannot control the flow :)
09:57:04	Oddmonger	the test is called like this:
09:57:22	Oddmonger	let allergies = Allergies(score: 3)
09:57:34	Oddmonger	check allergies.lst == @["eggs", "peanuts"]
09:58:01	Oddmonger	so there is a «lst» which i defined as a seq in
09:58:38	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Exercism?
09:58:40	Oddmonger	Allergies, but you see, i must either overload @[] access, or populate «lst» when assigning allergies
09:58:49	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Can you show the test code
09:58:50	Oddmonger	yes it's exercism
09:58:53	Oddmonger	yes
09:59:38	Oddmonger	http://ix.io/2sQY
10:00:08	*	endragor quit (Remote host closed the connection)
10:00:43	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> I can uncover a deep secret for you
10:00:43	Oddmonger	and my work: http://ix.io/2sR0
10:00:51	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> lst can be just an ordinary proc
10:00:56	Oddmonger	oh
10:00:56	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Remember UFCS
10:01:00	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> And command syntax
10:01:05	Oddmonger	ohhhhh /o\
10:01:18	Oddmonger	ok thank you :)
10:01:22	supakeen	What does `saterm` sound like to you?
10:01:28	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> ?
10:01:34	Oddmonger	sat ?
10:01:38	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Terminal emulator?
10:02:15	Oddmonger	i think he is speaking of grammar
10:02:35	*	rockcavera quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
10:02:39	Oddmonger	i remember having read this in the lua book «programming in lua» when they define the grammar
10:03:28	Oddmonger	but it was «SAT» if i remember well
10:03:37	supakeen	Yardanico: That's close enough yes. It's a ploy on saturn but instead it's a terminal.
10:03:49	supakeen	Well, not a terminal it's a 'port' of urwid to nim.
10:04:05	Oddmonger	(or was it AST :þ)
10:07:13	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Yeah I know what you mean by a SAT
10:10:25	Zevv	yeah last thing I saw was he was on a boat
10:11:06	*	Vladar joined #nim
10:11:26	Zevv	irc/2020/07/10:21:41 #nim: < PMunch> Apparently the internet out here is a bit flaky though..
10:11:30	Zevv	last we ever heard
10:20:27	FromGitter	<alehander92> he merged a PR several days ago
10:20:36	FromGitter	<alehander92> so he' still out there
10:24:37	*	krux02 joined #nim
11:25:04	*	waleee-cl joined #nim
11:31:46	*	audiofile joined #nim
11:33:32	*	maier joined #nim
11:38:25	*	maier quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
11:41:52	*	noonien joined #nim
11:44:32	*	lritter quit (Quit: Leaving)
11:53:37	Zevv	so the rumours go
11:53:56	Yardanico	?
11:58:13	supakeen	It's handy that you are on all the chat clients so I can at least tab-complete your name Yardanico.
11:58:19	Yardanico	hehe
11:58:42	Yardanico	Well I use Quassel (so I'm 24/7 online in IRC) and I rarely turn off my PC anyway
12:02:59	Oddmonger	so with $ i can convert enum to string, but can i convert a string to enum value ? I read « use strutils », but it doesn't see to do that
12:03:04	Yardanico	parseEnum
12:03:08	Yardanico	from strutils
12:03:42	Oddmonger	Yardanico , you answers are such fast i suspect you to be an AI trained with Nim index
12:03:47	Yardanico	shhh
12:03:48	Oddmonger	thank you
12:05:25	Zevv	Yardanico, built on GPT-3
12:05:43	Yardanico	I just happen to remember most of the (used) stdlib modules
12:05:47	Yardanico	Which is quite handy
12:06:02	*	supakeen quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
12:06:02	Yardanico	but I still read module docs for more complex procs or for the ones I didn't use myself
12:06:39	*	supakeen joined #nim
12:07:52	Yardanico	and my answers are fast because when I'm on the PC Quassel is on my second display
12:08:00	Yardanico	so I notice new messages with my peripheral vision
12:08:08	Yardanico	even when I'm focused on the main display
12:18:43	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> There are a few rare bugs with dlls —noMain and —threads.↵It’s being hard to find all of them
12:19:07	Yardanico	with arc?
12:19:16	Yardanico	--threads:on might be hard to properly manage with the default GC
12:19:20	Yardanico	with --noMain and stuff
12:19:23	Oddmonger	ord(enu.truc) -> ok
12:19:29	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> It doesn’t seem to be specific to arc
12:19:31	Oddmonger	ord (enu.truc) -> cryptic error
12:19:48	Oddmonger	(ordinal type expected)
12:20:12	Yardanico	well can you show more code?
12:20:13	Oddmonger	/o\ 20mn before retyping all without spaces
12:20:30	Yardanico	"ord (Tata.truc)" might mean call ord with a tuple in some cases
12:20:36	Yardanico	it's better to just not use parens in this case
12:20:58	Yardanico	I use UFCS quite a lot, but I rarely add spaces in calls like that :P
12:21:14	Oddmonger	# return (ord ( parseEnum[enumAllergies]( name)) and this.score) > 0
12:21:30	Oddmonger	return (ord(parseenum[enumAllergies](name)) and this.score) > 0
12:21:47	Oddmonger	the commented one is refused with «ordinal type expected»
12:22:22	Oddmonger	but even with a simple enum access, it's the same error
12:22:37	Oddmonger	hum… no
12:26:03	FromDiscord	<Shucks> > There are a few rare bugs with dlls —noMain and —threads.↵> It’s being hard to find all of them↵@Recruit_main707 just got issues with arc in that case
12:26:15	Yardanico	well report them then :)
12:26:15	FromDiscord	<Shucks> thats why I was asking if arc supports threads
12:26:20	Yardanico	it does just fine
12:26:26	Yardanico	look at how Nim makes a DllMain itself
12:26:34	Yardanico	so you can do it in a similar way yourself
12:27:19	FromDiscord	<Shucks> Well as you might know we're coding injectable libraries. Hard to tell what exactly happens
12:27:41	FromDiscord	<Shucks> Crashes the main process. Debugging doesn't gives usable information
12:28:40	Yardanico	try to inject into your own process for a test :)
12:28:44	Yardanico	the one you compiled in full debug mode
12:29:35	FromDiscord	<Shucks> That might be a solution yea
12:40:37	Oddmonger	arrrrrhh disjoints enums
12:42:43	Yardanico	don't use enums with holes :((
12:42:45	Yardanico	holes are dangerous
12:42:49	Yardanico	you can fall into them
12:43:23	Oddmonger	cannot climb with succ ?
12:47:36	Oddmonger	nak, works only with no holes too
13:01:38	Oddmonger	don't believe i'm proud of this, but it works with very few lines: http://ix.io/2sRA
13:01:52	Yardanico	first tip: you can have one type section here :)
13:02:18	Oddmonger	ah yes, no need to object
13:02:41	Yardanico	also, if you only need one proc from some module, no need to add a comment like that
13:02:50	Oddmonger	maybe i could have a cleaner result by generating the table with preprocessor
13:02:50	Yardanico	you can just do from strutils import parseEnum
13:02:59	Yardanico	and your enum seems to be a bitflag one
13:03:09	Yardanico	also I don't like the space placement personally (I like the usual nim style, e.g. what nimpretty would give you)
13:03:16	Yardanico	no need for "return result" in lst :)
13:03:32	Yardanico	See https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#set-type-bit-fields
13:03:40	Yardanico	"Note how the set turns enum values into powers of 2."
13:06:12	Oddmonger	ah need to read about set then
13:07:51	Oddmonger	i think i understand, it's nice
13:08:27	Oddmonger	don't even need parseenum with that
13:09:41	FromDiscord	<Shucks> Well I'm not able to reproduce that threads & gc error: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/739107587944874014/injecttest.rar
13:09:56	FromDiscord	<Shucks> works how expected
13:12:12	Yardanico	Oddmonger: I'm also a mentor on exercism for the Nim track btw, but I rarely review solutions :D
13:13:01	FromDiscord	<haxscramper> Is it possible to get original source code line from `NimNode` without getting line index using `lineInfoObj` and reading whole file again?
13:13:42	Yardanico	I don't really think it is, since otherwise it would take quite a lot of memory
13:13:57	Oddmonger	Yardanico: i've written that i've been helped in the source, and included original work
13:14:06	Yardanico	no it's fine
13:14:08	Oddmonger	even if it doesn't count for the exam :)
13:14:11	Yardanico	I didn't mean it this way
13:14:27	Oddmonger	yes, no problem :)
13:14:38	Oddmonger	i had understood don't worry
13:28:27	Araq	plan for the holidays is to remove the VM from Nim :-)
13:30:36	Araq	disruptek, https://github.com/disruptek/sigv4 fails for my PR :-(
13:30:45	Araq	https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/15141
13:30:47	disbot	➥ fixes #15130
13:30:48	Yardanico	Araq: the VM thing sounds.. crazy
13:30:56	Yardanico	genius I mean :P
13:30:58	Araq	Yardanico, holidays! :P
13:31:10	Yardanico	but what will you replace it with?
13:31:11	Yardanico	nim itself?
13:31:29	Araq	yeah, produce C code and staticExec the code
13:34:21	*	maier joined #nim
13:36:27	Yardanico	Araq: I will have a short look on sigv4 with your PR to try to see why it fails
13:36:34	Araq	thanks
13:41:41	FromDiscord	<Chapl> Hi! Somebody mind helping me out with macros and pragmas? I'd like to play with 'em a bit but encountered an issue that I cannot get resolved by myself, be it because of lacking documentation or something else.
13:44:13	FromDiscord	<Chapl> See the `{.toggle.}` and `{.with.}` right there, declared with the fields? I'd like them to generate "builder methods" for me, at compile time. Now, I think this would work by implementing a macro that I'd call like this `populateBuilderFunctions(Configuration)`, but I'd like to it without calling some function. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/739116275774783528/unknown.png
13:44:52	FromDiscord	<Chapl> (edit) 'See the `{.toggle.}` and `{.with.}` right there, declared with the fields? I'd like them to generate "builder methods" for me, at compile time. Now, I think this would work by implementing a macro that I'd call like this `populateBuilderFunctions(Configuration)`, but I'd like to ... it' => 'See the `{.toggle.}` and `{.with.}` right there, declared with the fields? I'd like them to generate "builder methods" for me, at compile time.
13:46:01	FromDiscord	<Chapl> So, `whitelistEnabled* {.toggle.}: bool` would technically result in a func looking like this `func toggleWhitelistEnabled(c: var Configuration, b: bool): var Configuration`
13:50:59	*	outtabwz left #nim (#nim)
13:55:01	*	NimBot joined #nim
13:57:30	Araq	don't return things you already know just because you like chaining. use 'with' for chaining
13:57:35	Araq	sugar.with
13:59:07	FromDiscord	<Chapl> Cool hint but that's not the problem I described.
13:59:08	Yardanico	Araq: so far it's https://gist.github.com/Yardanico/6457d94ed01c5af17a5bc3810c21e5ea
14:06:41	Yardanico	oh I'm near
14:08:34	Yardanico	Araq: only json left https://gist.github.com/Yardanico/7d46844e887ae0f166a61a6cd585866d
14:08:50	Yardanico	it's probably because stuff in tt
14:09:31	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> Yardanico: I already import the dll as normal and inject it into dummy processes for testing
14:09:51	Yardanico	ohh I know what I should try
14:10:22	Yardanico	yeah easy
14:11:26	Yardanico	Araq: final one :) https://gist.github.com/Yardanico/accf95a2dc3162fe0b3a7188ab9d7932
14:11:43	Yardanico	it just doesn't crash with strings because literal strings with arc are static
14:11:51	Yardanico	so it doesn't destroy them and there's no crash (so I used seqs which are on heap)
14:14:28	Araq	well optimizing string literals was the initial motivation for cursor inference :-)
14:15:08	*	vicfred joined #nim
14:15:13	Araq	Chap1: sure, now what's your problem again?
14:15:20	Yardanico	@Chapl ^
14:17:09	disruptek	Araq: i guess your pr is incomplete. 😉
14:18:07	disruptek	i hope to fixup mangling before you get back.
14:18:51	*	theelous3 joined #nim
14:19:34	FromDiscord	<Chapl> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/2sRY
14:20:08	shashlick	Araq: why remove the vm? What's the motivation
14:20:11	FromDiscord	<Chapl> It is just a practice for me to get used to macros and templates. I'm not really trying to get func/proc chaining to work.
14:20:25	Yardanico	shashlick: no need to maintain yet another implementation of nim? idk
14:22:17	disruptek	without a vm, all operations at runtime are available at compile-time.
14:22:24	shashlick	That's the obvious answer but still curious cause it could have been done with static exec initially as well but wasn't for some reason
14:23:18	Araq	shashlick, it wasn't because back then I had fun writing a bytecode VM
14:24:11	Araq	now it's just another legacy subsystem. Also, I'm not sure I was aware of the idea, macros came earlier than staticExec and making it work with staticExec is a complex task too
14:25:36	shashlick	Got it
14:29:09	FromGitter	<alehander92> whatr about
14:29:11	FromGitter	<alehander92> nlvm
14:29:17	FromGitter	<alehander92> and other possible nim impl-s
14:29:35	FromGitter	<alehander92> would the spec require stuff like C evaluation on CT
14:29:52	Araq	same story, nlvm can use its own backend for evaluation
14:32:23	FromGitter	<alehander92> but we need CT to be independent off backend
14:32:24	*	vicfred quit (Quit: Leaving)
14:32:33	Yardanico	it would be
14:32:43	Yardanico	even for JS backend the CT will probably use the C backend
14:33:09	FromGitter	<alehander92> but e.g. if my code executes c calls to some lib
14:33:13	FromGitter	<alehander92> or emits C
14:33:20	FromGitter	<alehander92> is this supposed to be idiomatic / supported
14:33:24	Yardanico	so what's the problem?
14:33:56	Yardanico	wonder what will happen with "nim secret" though :P
14:34:00	Yardanico	I guess it'll be gone away for good?
14:34:07	FromGitter	<alehander92> well, the problem is should my custom nim support that on CT
14:34:23	FromGitter	<alehander92> because that's an additional requirement compared to runtime availability
14:34:41	FromGitter	<alehander92> usually if i see macros i think "this works everywhere"
14:34:50	Yardanico	yes, that won't change as far as I can see it
14:34:54	Yardanico	macros don't emit C code or call C libraries
14:35:04	FromGitter	<alehander92> ok
14:35:05	Yardanico	since FFI in the VM was never a stable feature
14:35:12	FromGitter	<alehander92> i mean : it's useful
14:35:14	FromGitter	<alehander92> to be able to do ffi
14:35:19	Yardanico	yes
14:35:20	FromGitter	<alehander92> i am not saying it's not a good thing
14:35:27	FromGitter	<alehander92> just wondering how standard it is
14:37:59	shashlick	So the js backend will also need a C compiler installed
14:38:53	shashlick	Our will the new compile time run on js
14:49:32	Araq	that's a good question. 'static: os.copyFile(...)' means the JS backend needs the C backend for 'static' blocks :P
14:51:51	FromDiscord	<Chapl> Why is everything in the Nim world just 50% solution instead of a 90% or a 100% solution. So excited about Nim and every single time I work with either Nim or the Nim community I get busted in the balls.
14:51:59	Yardanico	?
14:52:08	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> @Chapl you could put the generating call in your module
14:52:16	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> and make it generate exported procs
14:52:26	Yardanico	you can always ask on the forums, real time chat is not good for big questions which would require big explanations :)
14:52:46	Araq	chap1: the 'norm' package does comparable things, please check it out
14:53:14	Yardanico	Araq: it's l btw, not 1 :D
14:53:39	Araq	as for your question, features start in the state "not implemented" and then slowly reach 50%, 80%, 99%
14:56:37	*	Ven`` quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
14:56:50	Yardanico	and 100% is not realistically possible for anything really :)
14:58:14	Yardanico	s/really//
15:22:08	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Araq: Btw addressed the review comment and undrafted https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/15123
15:22:08	disbot	➥ Better semiStmtList parsing
15:22:41	*	rockcavera joined #nim
15:24:55	disruptek	chapl: it's because you have big balls. i have the same problem.
15:25:30	disruptek	Araq: feel free to pr sigv4.
15:25:37	Yardanico	disruptek: it's not a sigv4 problem :)
15:25:41	Yardanico	and he already fixed it
15:25:43	disruptek	!last zevv
15:25:44	disbot	Zevv spoke in 12#nim 3 hours ago 12https://irclogs.nim-lang.org/01-08-2020.html#12:05:25
15:25:51	Zevv	wut
15:26:23	Zevv	I mean, good morning disruptek.
15:26:34	disruptek	can we just nail down the spec and then i can produce working code?
15:26:39	disruptek	i mean, howdy, zevv
15:26:49	Yardanico	disruptek: relax :)
15:27:17	Zevv	disruptek: sure
15:27:21	disruptek	germans make the best pants.
15:27:30	Zevv	lederhosen?
15:27:36	disruptek	nein
15:28:27	disruptek	more like federhosen.
15:28:33	disruptek	this company, alberto.
15:28:43	disruptek	use an italian fabric.
15:29:17	disruptek	i've beat the shit out of these pants and they are incredible.
15:29:29	Zevv	is that german?
15:30:11	disruptek	which part?
15:30:25	Zevv	anyway, the spec
15:30:34	Zevv	tell me, what problems were in your V1 which you want to solve in V2
15:31:07	Zevv	I know the implementation was shitty and needs a rewrite, but what needs to change?
15:31:12	disruptek	the call convention is a major one.
15:31:25	Zevv	right. So, all I ask is to make that end-user centric
15:31:51	disruptek	i want c.next, c.next(), and c.next(43)
15:32:02	Zevv	so you will pass c to cps procs?
15:32:37	disruptek	what else?
15:32:51	Zevv	hide that
15:33:07	disruptek	what?
15:33:08	Zevv	c
15:33:14	Zevv	you hid it in v1
15:33:21	disruptek	that was a dumb idea.
15:33:31	Zevv	true, just checking
15:33:40	disruptek	lol
15:33:47	Zevv	was *my* idea, never forget
15:34:05	Zevv	so, what is the problem, you can just get c.foo, c.foo() and c.foo(arg, arg), right?
15:34:15	Zevv	I don't care for the first really, but I think it comes naturally
15:34:49	disruptek	what is the first?
15:34:54	Zevv	c.foo
15:34:56	Zevv	without the ()
15:35:00	disruptek	yes, but what does it mean?
15:35:05	Zevv	same as c.foo()
15:35:13	disruptek	well, this is a problem.
15:35:21	*	dadada joined #nim
15:35:45	*	dadada is now known as Guest37688
15:35:56	Zevv	because of the callOperator
15:35:57	disruptek	maybe () is compositional but command syntax yields the result?
15:36:40	Zevv	so, just leave it out then
15:36:52	Zevv	why do *you* want those three
15:37:28	disruptek	because if people have access to the continuation, we need to understand how they use it.
15:37:53	Zevv	I'd say, make it opaque.
15:37:55	Zevv	it's just a handle
15:38:03	disruptek	i want those because i want to get the result, i want to chain continuations, and i want to pass args to them.
15:38:48	Zevv	ok, but you're talking about continuations as if the user needs to know what that are
15:39:03	disruptek	i don't care what you build. that's your problem.
15:39:05	Zevv	the initial idea of this whole thing is to hide all that
15:39:15	disruptek	but it would be helpful if you built some stuff that we can test against.
15:39:23	Zevv	sure, ready when you are
15:39:31	disruptek	maybe that's done already; i just realized that stash is a directory. 🤣
15:40:02	Zevv	there's a little iterator. a little http server. a little goto and a little trycatch
15:40:13	Zevv	all without using any external event queues
15:40:57	Zevv	and performance.nim telling me nim closure iterators are 6.111 times faster
15:41:07	disruptek	performance.nim?
15:41:34	Zevv	https://github.com/disruptek/cps/blob/master/stash/performance.nim
15:41:47	disruptek	oh, i'm not up-to-date i guess.
15:41:53	Zevv	is that news
15:42:16	disruptek	ah, this is neat.
15:43:21	Zevv	so basically, I'm reasonably happy with the V1 api, altough I need one more thing
15:43:33	Zevv	which is your 'data' in the new continuation type
15:43:52	disruptek	i don't get it.
15:44:37	Zevv	look at https://github.com/disruptek/cps/blob/master/stash/trycatch.nim
15:44:54	Zevv	there's this global vars because I can't put that anywhere else. "err" "msg" and "where"
15:45:29	Zevv	the example is kind of silly, but it's a kind of exceptions
15:45:50	disruptek	okay, but i think continuations should be so conceptual that they don't define fields.
15:46:21	disruptek	that means that you can compose them from anything you want.
15:46:47	Zevv	right. I dont need that or see why I would, but it doesn't hurt to do it like that
15:47:01	Zevv	it will probably bring great power one day
15:47:43	disruptek	what is `setLen(x: seq[T], 10): seq[T]` but a call to a continuation around `seq[T]` with a constant, adjacent value `10`?
15:48:13	*	Vladar quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
15:48:56	Zevv	sure. I see that, but it's just that I don't *need* that now
15:49:03	Zevv	I have a few clear pracical goals
15:49:15	disruptek	what are they?
15:50:07	Zevv	lua-style coroutines, if possible getting a return value from a cps magic call, and async like in the http server
15:50:29	disruptek	i don't really know lua, i just hack it.
15:50:38	Zevv	I do, so i have your back
15:50:55	disruptek	but what does it mean? x.next; x.next; x.next?
15:50:56	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> @dom96 where does the choosenim intaller install everything?
15:51:07	disruptek	recruit: `which nim`
15:51:30	disruptek	Zevv: like python generators?
15:51:37	FromDiscord	<dom96> @Recruit_main707 ~/.choosenim
15:51:40	Zevv	disruptek: you mean the lua coros?
15:51:44	disruptek	yeah.
15:52:26	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> its just that i deleted everything i could find in my pc, but choosenim still apears when i try to run `nim` on cmd
15:53:40	Zevv	disruptek: you create a coroutine and resume() it to start it.
15:53:52	Zevv	You can pass data into resume(), which is the avaialble in the coro proc.
15:54:13	Zevv	The coro runs until it yields. It can pass data into yield(), which becomes the result of the resume() proc that resumed the coro
15:54:39	Zevv	what the proc yields() is return value of resume(), and what you pass to resume() becomse the return value of the next yield()
15:54:52	Zevv	it's amazingly simple and powerful
15:55:22	Zevv	The good thing is that it doesn't have colored functions. That's something we can not really do for now tho
15:55:31	disruptek	what you pass... is the same type as what you receive back.
15:55:47	Zevv	lua is typeless, so it doesn't really map.
15:56:13	Zevv	But I guess I can make it so that you provide T1 for the one way, and T2 for the other way
15:56:23	disruptek	var x = newCoro(); assert x.resume(43) == 44; assert x.resume("43") == "44"; right?
15:56:37	*	maier quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
15:57:05	Zevv	close enough
15:57:16	Zevv	anyway, these are the kind of things I want to try to build
15:57:34	Zevv	and also just the simple async stuff
15:57:40	Zevv	which I want to go use on tiny embedded things
15:58:16	disruptek	like parasites? i have a lot of those.
15:58:54	Zevv	symbiotic evolution for millions of years, you'll be just fine
15:59:26	disruptek	its only been 18 months and these worms on my back are driving me crazy.
16:00:43	Zevv	anyway, practically speaking, V1 was pretty close
16:01:03	Zevv	but like I said, I need a way to pass data among my cpsMagic procs, which I could not yet do
16:01:39	disruptek	well, let x = mycont.foo(43) is just a return statement where the continuation resumes with a new x value in scope. no big deal.
16:01:51	Zevv	no big deal
16:01:59	Zevv	so indeed, look at stash/
16:02:03	disruptek	mycont.foo(43) is more interesting to me, because it lets the user put values adjacent.
16:03:02	disruptek	the question is, does the user tell us to merge those values into the continuation? or do we always do so? or never? or do we infer this?
16:03:16	Zevv	how is that differetn from what we already had? You could do `cps sleep(3)`
16:03:59	disruptek	our code was storing the 3 twice.
16:04:37	Zevv	right. But the semantics are the same.
16:04:40	Zevv	and you really need that
16:04:44	Zevv	to be able to do that
16:06:28	disruptek	hmm.
16:07:00	*	ForumUpdaterBot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
16:07:08	*	ForumUpdaterBot joined #nim
16:08:20	disruptek	what is cpsMagic to you and why do you need it?
16:08:49	Zevv	I don't need the macro, but the concept. Its a thing that gets called to do the "magic" stuff
16:08:55	Zevv	the internals. Like the magic CPC functions in the paper
16:09:06	Zevv	the things that store continuations in event queue bookkeeping
16:09:13	Zevv	they have full access and knowledge of the C type
16:09:36	Zevv	they implement 'sleep' and
16:09:39	Zevv	'iowait
16:10:43	disruptek	well, it turns out that all primitives are the same. and if primitives are also the same as user code, it helps everyone.
16:11:07	Zevv	right, if so, all the better
16:11:19	disruptek	okay.
16:11:47	disruptek	so what the rewrite does is to make control flow more natural.
16:12:00	disruptek	that's the only purpose.
16:12:10	Zevv	but I thnink I want to be able to do some level of isolation. middleware can do everything, but users of the middlewere should not be bothered by any of this
16:12:22	Zevv	that is the only purpose
16:12:26	disruptek	middleware abstraction is your problem.
16:12:26	Zevv	i want to write 'normal' nim
16:12:29	Zevv	right
16:13:10	Zevv	i was just speaking in v1 terms
16:13:43	Zevv	I want to be able to do https://github.com/disruptek/cps/blob/master/stash/goto.nim without the global 'labels
16:13:51	Zevv	that should live somewhere in the chain of continuations
16:13:56	Zevv	all very practical stuff
16:15:16	disruptek	cont.foo probably has to be the result.
16:15:28	Zevv	probably
16:15:48	disruptek	annoying.
16:17:12	disruptek	() is next, so (43) is next(43).
16:18:31	disruptek	why don't you have labels on the continuation object?
16:18:32	Zevv	pretty
16:20:02	Zevv	how do you mean?
16:20:07	Zevv	labels
16:20:19	Zevv	oh in the goto
16:20:20	disruptek	in the goto example; why do they have to be global?
16:20:36	Zevv	ehm maybe I was just doing stupid stuff, I'll take a good look in an hour or so
16:20:44	Zevv	first grillin da portabellos
16:20:52	disruptek	heh okay.
16:27:04	FromGitter	<alehander92> goto goto
16:36:09	disruptek	`[]`() is a macro that lets you cont[n] = 43 # set symbol `n` inside the continuation to value 43.
16:44:12	disruptek	might have to start showering again.
16:44:22	disruptek	it's annoying to have to floss my comb.
16:58:36	*	superbia1 joined #nim
17:00:03	Zevv	disruptek: I cant store my labels inside the continuation object because it gets lost and I have not place to initialize. Initialization could be done with some `if nil` snartness, but the passing around breaks it.
17:00:24	Zevv	I'll have to go and see which of the `when declaredInScope` branches is taken for each proc
17:01:25	*	superbia quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
17:04:47	Zevv	also related to yesterdays question: why do we even bother to return a C all the time, if we can just mutate it in plcae
17:16:20	disruptek	wut
17:16:30	Zevv	wut wut
17:16:45	Zevv	ok, forget the last remark
17:16:52	Zevv	about gettign my 'goto' labels into C, right
17:17:08	Yardanico	wat wut wat?
17:17:13	Zevv	so I do http://ix.io/2sSz
17:17:25	Zevv	seems ok, if CPS would do the right thing. But V1 doesn't
17:17:33	Zevv	So c.labels is not the same c.labels next time
17:19:26	Zevv	which is funny, because from the cpsDebug output i'd expect the same continuation to be moved around all of the time
17:19:33	disruptek	i don't understand.
17:19:52	Zevv	ok, one step back
17:20:30	Zevv	goto example, moved labels back to globals. I add one 'int' to my Conte type
17:20:35	Zevv	which on every 'goto' I echo and inc
17:20:37	Zevv	what should happen?
17:21:08	Zevv	the idea is that C is a pointer to the same contuniation all of the time
17:21:09	Zevv	but it isn't
17:21:16	disruptek	why not?
17:21:38	Zevv	beacsue something is broken. I still allocs new C's
17:21:54	disruptek	i didn't even know cps was compiling.
17:22:04	Zevv	Talking current master
17:22:10	Zevv	with my stash/ stuff
17:22:15	Zevv	those work
17:22:20	disruptek	really?
17:22:22	Zevv	dude
17:22:35	disruptek	my branch is different, i guess.
17:22:44	disruptek	let's look at the rewrite.
17:22:52	disruptek	i can't read anything interesting here.
17:23:01	disruptek	can you paste it for us?
17:23:01	Zevv	the rewrite is doin these two level nasty 'when' things
17:23:04	Zevv	so it's hard to follow
17:23:15	disruptek	yeah, but i'm the author of that garbage.
17:23:32	Zevv	http://ix.io/2sSC
17:24:08	Zevv	so start at foo. no 'continuation' in scope so it makes a new one. and puts in 'after_14400250'
17:24:15	disruptek	it's clearly creating a new object.
17:24:27	Zevv	yeah, the first foo() call, and it should
17:24:57	Zevv	but after that it keeps going at after_14400250 only
17:26:01	disruptek	we should just call Tc on the env types, i guess.
17:26:23	disruptek	it's surprising that we're wrong about Tc().
17:26:51	Zevv	in the 'when' branches, it should take the one where it reuses the current continuation and only updates 'fn', right?
17:27:00	disruptek	yes.
17:27:24	Zevv	I don't think it does
17:27:58	disruptek	`is` is not as smart as you thought.
17:28:09	Zevv	I never thought that
17:28:22	disruptek	oh, well, uh.
17:28:24	Zevv	hehe
17:28:31	Zevv	just that 'it worked for me'
17:28:48	Zevv	are you sure it's taking the right branch at 'declaredInScope'
17:29:00	disruptek	let's start with verifying that Tc() doesn't do a copy.
17:29:31	Zevv	well, we shouldn't even return, is my point
17:29:35	Zevv	we can just update the passed Tc
17:29:45	disruptek	what?
17:30:09	disruptek	true, but we return because the rewrite is shit.
17:30:29	Zevv	fair enough. But I mean: These proc's do not even have to return a continuation
17:30:39	disruptek	how do you figure?
17:30:41	Zevv	They can modify the one they got passed, update the fn
17:30:49	Zevv	and pass it on
17:31:05	Zevv	Why make a new Tc?
17:31:08	Zevv	you already have one
17:31:27	disruptek	yes, but does that hold for every continuation?
17:31:33	Zevv	Sure
17:31:38	disruptek	sure?
17:31:42	Zevv	As far as I can tell
17:31:51	Zevv	it's serial
17:31:56	disruptek	it doesn't hold for an immutable object type.
17:31:58	Zevv	there is always *one* active, and there is never any backtracking
17:32:09	Zevv	no, but it's a ref
17:32:15	Zevv	you pass the ref to the continuation
17:32:18	disruptek	here it is, but not everywhere.
17:32:23	Zevv	then make it so
17:32:27	Zevv	it's worth it
17:32:32	Zevv	Because Tc() *is* doing a copy
17:32:33	disruptek	how?
17:32:48	Zevv	Let me rewrite that rewrite
17:33:03	disruptek	fine, but we can just use Tc() on the other paths.
17:33:20	Zevv	why?
17:33:23	disruptek	or, more usefully, cast.
17:33:23	Zevv	why would you even want that?
17:33:34	disruptek	because then there's no copy in the after().
17:33:48	Zevv	who is copying then?
17:33:53	disruptek	you said Tc().
17:33:58	disruptek	try cpsCast.
17:34:04	Zevv	Well, or your 'when' is taking the wrong turn
17:34:17	disruptek	either way.
17:34:26	Zevv	and I'm wrong, Tc() is just a conversion
17:34:27	Zevv	it's not a copy
17:34:32	Zevv	so it must be the when then?
17:34:36	disruptek	Tc() runs on the env. so it's the `is`.
17:34:48	disruptek	balls.
17:34:53	Zevv	put some echos in there for me
17:34:57	Zevv	to see which one of the tree it takes
17:35:32	Zevv	immamakeacoffee
17:35:33	disruptek	omg i can't rebase.
17:35:35	disruptek	kk
17:35:38	Zevv	you can't git
17:35:39	Zevv	haa haa
17:35:43	Zevv	disruptak can't git
17:36:01	disruptek	i don't get it; this is my own commit.
17:36:09	Zevv	last commit is mine
17:36:24	Zevv	do 'git pull --rebase'
17:36:28	disruptek	i did.
17:37:42	disruptek	there's literally zero difference in the code, too.
17:38:36	Zevv	the fun
17:38:41	disruptek	bizarre.
17:39:12	disruptek	goto runs for me.
17:39:18	Zevv	ok cool
17:39:26	Zevv	so do the others in stash, afaik
17:39:29	disruptek	is it a test?
17:39:37	disruptek	ie. does it fail when it's broken? looks like no.
17:39:52	disruptek	it just outputs `one`.
17:40:33	disruptek	yeah, the rewrite is completely broken.
17:40:41	Zevv	no it outputs one two three two three two three
17:40:43	Zevv	until ever
17:40:56	disruptek	well, not in my branch. 😁
17:40:57	Zevv	that what it does for me at commit e6be78d5e5d0383bd009201fc1ff6a6ff0bde0fe
17:41:02	Zevv	so you broke it after that
17:41:05	disruptek	yes.
17:41:08	disruptek	okay, lemme roll.
17:41:20	disruptek	okay, good.
17:42:23	disruptek	so `is` is not going to work.
17:43:02	Zevv	sure that's it
17:43:05	Zevv	that *is* it
17:43:06	Zevv	haha
17:43:20	disruptek	but that's a huge problem.
17:43:39	Zevv	are you sure it's this
17:43:43	Zevv	and not the declaredInScope
17:43:57	disruptek	i will add your echos and see.
17:44:37	Zevv	otoh, why would you still need that? There is only one more kind of env left
17:44:39	Zevv	you flattened it out
17:45:00	disruptek	only in this case.
17:45:10	Zevv	ah ok, I thought you always went flat
17:45:24	disruptek	no, it does what it can.
17:45:28	Zevv	ok
17:46:39	disruptek	no echos.
17:46:52	Zevv	well, where did you put'em
17:47:20	disruptek	declaredInScope is not true for this code.
17:47:24	Zevv	right
17:47:28	Zevv	so it's not the is, is it
17:47:42	disruptek	well, i will test that, too.
17:48:01	disruptek	but also, wtf.
17:48:10	Zevv	wtf!
17:50:33	disruptek	we can template it as result if it's not declared, but we need to have a way to do that which actually works.
17:51:04	disruptek	this is why i wanted to just put the rewrite in its own proc.
17:51:09	Zevv	right
17:51:17	disruptek	but still, wtf.
17:51:29	Zevv	so, do we either hack on this a bit more so it works semantically as we think it should
17:51:37	Zevv	or is everything going out and start from scratch already
17:51:42	Zevv	because I feel this is pretty close
17:51:58	Zevv	I can even forgive you the triple and quadriple returns
17:52:15	disruptek	well, that's why i want to nail the spec.
17:52:28	Zevv	I always nail specs by writing something that works good enough to run
17:52:30	Zevv	and then see if I like it
17:52:32	*	maier joined #nim
17:53:56	disruptek	one thing i can't decide if i like... cont.foo is result but cont() is typeof(cont).
17:54:24	Zevv	is this something that has to be set in stone at this moment?
17:54:40	disruptek	what else is there?
17:54:57	Zevv	I don't know. But in practice, how would this matter to the end user? They never see what's under the hood
17:55:02	Zevv	they just provide their little foo()
17:55:19	Oddmonger	i was sure it was possible to comment large portions of code with syntax like #ifdef / #endif
17:55:34	disruptek	i want you to be able to write middlware that can be built upon and doesn't need to be rewritten as we improve the impl.
17:55:34	Zevv	Oddmonger: you can `when false:`
17:55:49	Oddmonger	ahhh
17:55:55	Zevv	disruptek: fair enough. But I don't care if that happens for the first few iterations
17:55:57	disruptek	#[ is a comment block ]#
17:56:12	Zevv	oh yeah that's better, you don't need to indend. use that Oddmonger
17:56:26	*	vicfred joined #nim
17:56:32	disruptek	so stash is our proof-of-concept? is there anything missing from it that you want?
17:56:37	Zevv	disruptek: I really don't care for that now. I'd be happy to rewrite stuff as we go. I only know if I hate or love it when I work with it
17:56:50	Zevv	rvalues
17:56:58	disruptek	right, but those are easy.
17:57:23	Oddmonger	Zevv: of course i know comment on multiline, but `when` keep the syntax colorization
17:57:23	Zevv	If there is zero copy of continuations, stash is fine with me
17:57:25	*	maier quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
17:57:29	disruptek	okay.
17:57:36	Zevv	Oddmonger: fair enough
17:57:47	Zevv	disruptek: tell me, did you really not know about stash/ and the working things in there?
17:58:10	disruptek	i saw some commits and i thought you were commiting the git stash.
17:58:14	Zevv	haha
17:58:17	Zevv	bad naming :)
17:58:38	disruptek	git stash is a weird thing.
17:58:44	Zevv	there's no coros in there yet
18:00:06	Zevv	but these are pretty much the same as the iterator
18:01:06	Zevv	if you decide to go for a rewrite, could we support cps: blocks from the start, next to the cps procs?
18:01:14	Zevv	semantics like in the CPC paper
18:01:25	Zevv	or is that nasty
18:01:32	disruptek	yes, but we support them, now.
18:01:41	disruptek	cps Cont:
18:01:50	Zevv	yeah but then a proc must go in
18:01:57	Zevv	I mean cps'ing only a part of a proc
18:01:58	Zevv	or does that work?
18:02:15	disruptek	if it doesn't work it's only because of assertions or whatever.
18:02:21	Zevv	oh that'd be cool
18:02:42	Zevv	gimme a sec, this is where I'd like to go with the async stuff (write write)
18:02:56	disruptek	i just don't even want that. i just want `.` and `()` to invert control-flow.
18:04:40	Zevv	http://ix.io/2sSS
18:04:59	Zevv	something along these lines
18:05:56	disruptek	why would you want this?
18:06:02	Zevv	it's cool as hell
18:06:11	disruptek	callback hell, you mean.
18:06:47	Zevv	no callbacks. It's just saying 'start a new "thread" from here'
18:06:54	Zevv	this is what the CPC paper does. exactly this
18:07:59	disruptek	i am fine with blocks but i want to be rvalues.
18:08:46	disruptek	like, i see no point to the second block.
18:09:09	Zevv	well, the second block needs a separate "thread"
18:09:28	Zevv	the outer 'while' should keep running to acccept new clients, and you want to spawn a new 'thread' for each client
18:09:32	Zevv	that's kind of the point
18:09:49	disruptek	right, but `spawn` is a primitive you can write.
18:09:59	Zevv	sure.
18:10:08	Zevv	just saying, I want to be able to make things like this
18:10:13	disruptek	yes.
18:10:18	Zevv	ok
18:10:29	disruptek	the key takeaway for me is that `cps io` is a statement.
18:10:38	Zevv	so, as your user #1, these are my requirements
18:10:42	Zevv	where do I send the sponsor money?
18:10:59	disruptek	let's think about how blocks work.
18:11:26	disruptek	can we simply say `cps:` anywhere?
18:11:57	disruptek	isn't that what we want?
18:12:01	Zevv	sure
18:12:05	Zevv	but you need a type
18:12:15	Zevv	cps C:
18:12:23	disruptek	why do i need a type?
18:12:43	Zevv	it's a block handled by the async or the iterator or the coro continuation type
18:12:58	Zevv	just like your procs get a cps:C
18:13:01	Zevv	it's no different
18:13:16	Zevv	Only there's no outer proc, you just get a StmtList right away
18:13:46	disruptek	but at line 0, it's as if there is nothing. can i not perform rewrite without a type?
18:14:37	Zevv	Hmm and let nim fix that.
18:14:43	Zevv	c.whatever(), and you don't care in your rewrite
18:14:58	Zevv	there just needs to be a `proc whatever(c: Cont)` somewhere
18:14:59	disruptek	can i not say: `let c: MyType = cps:`? my `=` can rewrite it.
18:15:12	Zevv	I guess so, but not yet sure
18:15:45	Zevv	no you need that, otherwise you don't know what to do when calling a cps primitive
18:15:54	Zevv	cpsMgic
18:15:59	Zevv	whatsitsname
18:17:22	disruptek	not convinced.
18:17:29	Zevv	me neither
18:17:46	disruptek	you can do a lot of logic without knowing anything about the types.
18:17:46	Zevv	why can't we just write this out?
18:18:02	Zevv	we just take these stash/ exmpales and write the Nim as it should come out in the end by hand
18:18:17	disruptek	maybe that's better.
18:18:23	Zevv	still one thing I do not see
18:18:41	Zevv	now, in user code, we do `cps sleep()`, right
18:18:48	disruptek	yeah.
18:18:49	Zevv	how do you want to do this in V2
18:19:02	disruptek	c.sleep()
18:19:10	Zevv	But for the user there *is* no c
18:19:24	disruptek	why not?
18:19:36	disruptek	cps as c: c.sleep()
18:19:37	Zevv	look at my https://github.com/disruptek/cps/blob/master/stash/iterator.nim, line 37
18:19:49	Zevv	counter has `lo` and `hi`, but there is no `c`
18:20:02	disruptek	yes, but we insert one, even now.
18:20:16	Zevv	right. But it's not there. If you go typed, it won't compile
18:20:21	Zevv	becasue there is no 'c'
18:20:29	disruptek	this is one of the reasons we didn't go typed. 😉
18:20:33	Zevv	so it has to be made explicit
18:20:38	disruptek	but it will be made to be there.
18:21:00	disruptek	i don't have a problem with that for middleware.
18:21:09	disruptek	it's not a big ask, imo.
18:21:10	Zevv	not for middlewere. But for end users that can't be
18:21:27	disruptek	it's not, for end users.
18:21:35	Zevv	it is. This iterator proc is an end user proc
18:21:50	disruptek	then you're doing it wrong.
18:22:07	Zevv	no, the 'iterator' *implementation* is middleware
18:22:12	Zevv	this is how you *use* it
18:22:19	disruptek	counter?
18:22:24	Zevv	yes
18:22:32	disruptek	then you're doing it wrong.
18:22:33	Zevv	everythign from line 33 and down is "user"
18:22:36	Zevv	above is "middleware"
18:22:49	Zevv	ok, tell me how I should do it then
18:22:57	disruptek	obviously not, because you have users talking about cps.
18:23:11	Zevv	ok, I can introduce one tiny macro called "Iterator"
18:23:15	disruptek	you need a level of indirection.
18:23:18	Zevv	and make that proc a {.Iterator.} proc instead
18:23:41	disruptek	macro? just an object that holds the iterator that users can interact with.
18:24:16	Zevv	what's in that object?
18:24:22	Zevv	because there is no object. It's cps all the way down
18:24:24	disruptek	you have produce() which seems perfectly fine.
18:24:45	Zevv	produce is cpsMagic
18:24:52	Zevv	its in the Iterator implementation
18:25:10	Zevv	middleware
18:25:14	disruptek	it doesn't look magical to me.
18:25:33	Zevv	ok, then again. I have a piece of *user* code. This user code wants to do 'jield'
18:25:44	disruptek	that's not user code, then, is it?
18:26:03	Zevv	it is. 'jield' is an iterator thing, not a CPS thing
18:26:10	Zevv	ok, other subject. async I/O
18:26:16	Zevv	The user wants to do an async recv()
18:26:19	disruptek	okay.
18:26:22	Zevv	how does she call that?
18:26:28	Zevv	what does the call look like?
18:26:51	disruptek	probably has a socketish thing and does recv on it.
18:27:07	*	audiophile joined #nim
18:27:19	Zevv	ok, fair enough, so then the socketish thing is the clue to cps
18:27:45	Zevv	another one: the 'gotos'
18:28:02	Zevv	I do a 'goto' or a 'label', but there is nothing to do that "on"
18:28:48	disruptek	well, make a thing.
18:28:55	Zevv	ok, I think I can live with that
18:29:00	Zevv	let's go with that
18:29:15	Zevv	is that something we want to do in the current codebase still?
18:29:29	disruptek	i think there's no alternative.
18:30:08	*	audiofile quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
18:30:10	disruptek	look, your recv() cannot work without an event loop, right?
18:30:14	*	audiophile is now known as audiofile
18:30:16	Zevv	sure, for recv that's true
18:30:21	disruptek	and you don't want cps to provide it.
18:30:26	disruptek	so the middle does.
18:30:28	Zevv	and probably for a lot of other things. But like iterators, what is the 'iterator' thingy?
18:30:34	disruptek	it's state.
18:30:40	disruptek	it is state. its state.
18:30:47	Zevv	ok, I'll try to see if I can make this fit in what is now here
18:31:07	disruptek	sleep is a better proxy for async.recv
18:31:21	disruptek	noop is a better proxy for yield.
18:31:23	Zevv	I'm afk for bit, reading time; tonights subject is gravity, this'll be fun
18:31:31	disruptek	gravity?
18:31:35	Zevv	gravity
18:31:37	disruptek	i mean, i've heard of it.
18:31:58	disruptek	have you been following this blbbt thing?
18:32:05	Zevv	reading something like Brysons "short history of nearly everything" for 10yos
18:32:06	disruptek	bhbbt, i mean.
18:32:24	Zevv	don't know what that is?
18:33:39	disruptek	the theory that there wasn't a single big bang (sbb) but that every black hole translates spacetime into an /analogous/ (not equivalent) universe as its output.
18:39:44	*	theelous3 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
18:41:44	Zevv	ah, that's just one of the many multiverse theories. I forgot the name but read a book the other day about all kind of variants on multiverses. Big fun and all, but hard to prove any of those right
18:42:31	disruptek	hey man, we're working on it. just need a long quantum string to dangle in a nearby sbh.
18:47:46	FromDiscord	<Ricky Spanish> is there an overhead for using oop in nim vs ignoring it completely?
18:48:33	disruptek	if you mean methods, yes.
18:48:59	Yardanico	but you have to remember that in other languages with methods you accept that overhead by default
18:49:04	Yardanico	but in nim it's optional :)
18:49:24	Araq	and with --gc:arc the overhead is currently terrible :-)
18:49:30	Yardanico	oh yeah, right
18:49:31	Araq	but I know how to fix it
18:49:33	Yardanico	yay
18:49:35	FromDiscord	<Ricky Spanish> yeh i guess thats why im broadly asking, im quite uh confused by nim coming from c++ but also using go im somehwat used to being forced
18:51:03	*	narimiran joined #nim
18:51:04	disruptek	ricky, are you related to susan spanish?
18:53:38	Zevv	ok disruptek, what can I do for you at this time?
18:54:08	disruptek	how is your arabic?
18:55:44	Araq	guys, time to say goodbye
18:55:57	Araq	won't be online tomorrow. don't do things I wouldn't do
18:56:05	disruptek	have fun, araq.
18:56:10	Yardanico	okay, good luck :)
18:56:25	Araq	thanks
18:56:47	Araq	and be friendlier to newcomers than I am
18:56:53	Araq	bbl
18:58:11	disruptek	"lightly pasteurized" milk is bullshit.
18:58:15	disruptek	so to speak.
18:59:04	Zevv	Araq: have a nice time!
18:59:13	*	Senketsu joined #nim
18:59:27	Zevv	Luckily we have Disruptek to make a good first impression on the newcomers
19:00:13	disruptek	friendlier than araq is a pretty low bar.
19:00:21	disruptek	not sure i can meet it.
19:00:23	Yardanico	Zevv: exactly /s
19:00:47	Zevv	I loved the nice interaction a few days. "Stranger: Hey arak, how are you doing? Arak: I don't know you."
19:00:56	Yardanico	hehehe
19:02:55	disruptek	Zevv: you know what the problem is?
19:02:58	disruptek	it's so obvious.
19:03:12	Zevv	tell me about the polka dotted elephant
19:04:10	disruptek	Zevv: have you been drinking?
19:04:15	Zevv	not today
19:04:24	disruptek	s/^/what/
19:08:09	Zevv	what Zevv: have you been drinking
19:10:44	Zevv	disruptek: I'm still waiting man
19:11:44	disruptek	oh
19:12:02	FromDiscord	<haxscramper> Assigning result of macro expansion to `const` hangs compilation. If I just copy-paste generated code to `const val = <my code>` everything works as expected. If I do `let val = macroCall()` there are no problems either. What can possibly cause this?
19:12:40	disruptek	a bug, most likely.
19:13:40	disruptek	Zevv: i was thinking the `when` didn't work because of out-of-phase eval but that makes no sense.
19:15:22	Zevv	no that's just so silly
19:19:14	disruptek	`is` clause doesn't work, either.
19:19:33	Zevv	all these crappy tools
19:24:21	disruptek	compiles() works.
19:24:28	disruptek	but without `is`...
19:25:14	disruptek	how about this idea:
19:25:43	disruptek	we do the conversion in the trampoline.
19:26:06	Zevv	I've been playing with that, but I feel it adds a lot of complexity
19:27:00	disruptek	we already have the complexity of inheritance in v1. maybe we should use it.
19:27:24	Zevv	but not in the trampoline. It's just wrong
19:27:31	Zevv	I thought of creating an initial boostrap proc
19:27:40	Zevv	that does the conversion of the initial call with args into a continuation
19:27:46	Zevv	after that, all split procs only have continuations
19:27:57	disruptek	yes, i mentioned that earlier.
19:28:01	disruptek	but it doesn't solve this problem.
19:28:13	Zevv	it solves the problem of all the funny 'when's
19:28:26	disruptek	how?
19:28:35	Zevv	there's always a 'continuation'
19:28:40	disruptek	that's one when.
19:28:43	disruptek	one of two.
19:29:10	Zevv	We generate the procs and the envs, right?
19:29:16	Zevv	how can you ever call a proc with the wrong env?
19:29:18	disruptek	last i checked.
19:29:29	Zevv	so why the "is" anyway?
19:29:35	Zevv	you *know* it is safe to convert to that type
19:29:38	Zevv	there is no other way
19:30:36	disruptek	no.
19:30:48	Zevv	no, there is no other way
19:30:51	disruptek	because i need to be able to create a new continuation in the body and then return a different type.
19:31:26	*	superbia1 is now known as superbia
19:31:44	FromDiscord	<dom96> Araq: I was just about to review that lol
19:32:01	FromDiscord	<dom96> Why are you merging things on holidays anyway? 🙂
19:32:15	disruptek	you're right about one thing, though.
19:32:26	disruptek	we /could/ create as many procs as we have subtypes.
19:32:34	Zevv	right
19:32:54	Zevv	also, asking again: Why do we even return
19:32:59	Zevv	throw that out
19:33:06	Zevv	you still didn't say why not
19:33:19	disruptek	why do we even return?
19:33:23	disruptek	as opposed to what?
19:33:23	Zevv	no, return a value
19:33:33	Zevv	why return a continuation
19:33:41	disruptek	because it might be of a different type.
19:33:54	Zevv	ok, but we want those to live in the same buffer
19:33:55	*	Senketsu quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
19:34:08	Zevv	converting indeed will not work in this case, but this is where you can do your casting
19:34:25	Zevv	remembery my earlier writup about re-inventing stack frames
19:34:27	disruptek	what i hear you saying is that you want me to cast. 😁
19:34:30	disruptek	but why?
19:34:38	Zevv	ok, bear with me.
19:34:53	*	disruptek takes his pants off.
19:35:14	Zevv	In the original proc there is a few places where we would split. At these places, when running the original proc, you would have your stack frames
19:35:30	Zevv	these stack frames share the same stuff for outer scopes, but might differ for inner scopes.
19:35:43	Zevv	stacks grow, shrink back a bit, grow again a bit differently
19:35:45	Zevv	with me?
19:35:50	disruptek	sure.
19:36:09	Zevv	we create an object type for each of these places in the original proc that is basically the same as the stack frame would have been
19:36:30	disruptek	church.
19:36:40	Zevv	these are not mutualy-convertable
19:36:49	Zevv	you can convert from a smaller to a deeper, but not between to deeper
19:36:59	Zevv	what you can do is *cast* among them
19:37:13	Zevv	if you know you don't need the old "tail" but want to put stuff in for the next scope
19:37:24	Zevv	you cast your the continuation you received to the next one
19:37:28	Zevv	add the new stuff
19:37:31	Zevv	update the fn
19:37:32	Zevv	and you're set
19:37:34	Zevv	just 'return'
19:37:38	disruptek	well, yes, but at the moment we just fold all types together.
19:37:49	Zevv	sure, then you don't even need the cast
19:37:54	Zevv	you can just update the 'fn' and return
19:38:08	Zevv	the trampoline does not do "c = c.fn(c)", it just does "c.fn()"
19:38:18	Zevv	no
19:38:22	Zevv	damn
19:38:28	disruptek	c.fn(c) but no.
19:38:33	Zevv	right
19:38:39	disruptek	because it needs to return an arbitrary type in response.
19:38:56	Zevv	damnit
19:38:58	disruptek	i don't think it should be a side-effect of the impl.
19:39:08	Zevv	ok, that's fair enough
19:39:09	disruptek	you're making too great a concession here.
19:39:24	Zevv	but the c we return will always be the exact same c?
19:39:26	disruptek	right now, the type is not merely as large as the largest frame.
19:39:35	Zevv	it's a new ref to the same thing
19:39:39	disruptek	it's as large as anything ever put on the stack in any frame.
19:40:01	Zevv	but that will cahnge, right
19:40:04	disruptek	the c won't always be the same.
19:40:23	Zevv	why not? It's the same alloced block
19:40:26	disruptek	it's just a side-effect of the current optimization.
19:40:37	Zevv	we *want* it to use the same memory block
19:41:00	Zevv	shouldn't we move to a different channel by the way.
19:41:00	disruptek	you always want to consume all that memory? for every continuation?
19:41:14	Zevv	no, we're talking two differetn things dude
19:41:14	disruptek	nah, fuck these nerds.
19:41:43	Zevv	1) we want to do one alloc for the whole continuation chain
19:41:59	disruptek	okay, i'm not 100% sure about that.
19:42:10	disruptek	first of all, zero'ing it out isn't free.
19:42:19	Zevv	you don't have to zero out.
19:42:25	Zevv	If you want you can do a low level alloc() instead of a new
19:43:02	disruptek	technically true, but that means we have to issue default() sets for variables in the scope.
19:43:21	Zevv	ok, anyway, that was assumption #1. As few allocs as possible
19:43:23	disruptek	it's not the worst idea, i guess.
19:43:36	disruptek	i mean, you've had worse ideas. that's what i'm trying to say.
19:43:40	*	disruptek 🤣
19:43:45	Zevv	number #2 is this two ways of making envs. Either you 'unfold' every possible continuation and put it all in one object
19:43:57	Zevv	or we make one-per-proc with the specific stack frame at that point
19:44:09	Zevv	if you go for the first, stuff is easy, because *all* procs take the same type
19:44:13	Zevv	no casts, no conversions
19:44:15	Zevv	right?
19:44:36	Zevv	that is, all procs ensaftened from the same source proc
19:44:57	disruptek	yes, it's true, but it's a big concession.
19:45:04	Zevv	ok. It eats more mem then needed
19:45:13	Zevv	so: #3: we make one object per split-proc
19:45:34	Zevv	you receive one, use and update what you need, and on your way out cast it to the next type
19:46:01	Zevv	these casts are 'safe' because of the nature of these things.
19:46:10	Zevv	because in the flow of things, it will just look like a stack frame
19:46:27	Zevv	when you exit a scope, all the stuff coming after that is no longer relevant
19:46:52	disruptek	i see 3 numbers and at least two are the same. but let's do this:
19:47:14	disruptek	we'll impl it as a single alloc because that's how the rest of the code optimizes it, today.
19:47:20	disruptek	we can reimpl it later.
19:47:22	Zevv	sure
19:48:32	Zevv	ok, another thing to settle
19:48:48	Zevv	what is your feeling about these top-level templates for accessing env contents instead of rewriting the body
19:49:04	*	Senketsu joined #nim
19:49:18	Zevv	template i = env(c).i_54857395
19:49:25	disruptek	they seem fine but iirc my impl is broken.
19:49:32	Zevv	becuase I made something neat for that: I made a template that inserts all those templates
19:49:41	Zevv	so you only need to call the 'injectlocals' template at the top of each proc
19:49:45	disruptek	i don't like the way the syntax highlight looks; it's creepy.
19:49:58	disruptek	but the approach makes some sense.
19:50:15	Zevv	ok, then one more
19:50:18	Zevv	when introducing a new variable
19:50:19	*	solitudesf joined #nim
19:50:20	Zevv	ino a scope
19:50:28	Zevv	your original code goes "var i = 42"
19:50:45	disruptek	yes, that has to change.
19:50:47	Zevv	then, in the end before going out, you need to make sure to put this new 'i' into the environment
19:51:02	disruptek	it will have to template it at the definition point.
19:51:07	Zevv	what if you from the start already instert the 'template i = env(c).i_15125'
19:51:16	Zevv	and rewrite 'var i =42' to 'i = 42'
19:51:35	disruptek	well, i only want to template it in the scope where it is defined.
19:51:45	Zevv	does it hurt to have it before? No one is accessing it?
19:51:49	Zevv	it's just a template
19:51:52	disruptek	i'd like `declaredInScope` to work.
19:52:01	Zevv	no, that's messy
19:52:07	Zevv	what is wrong with 'i' existing earlier
19:52:13	Zevv	guarenteed there is no one using it
19:52:14	disruptek	it could break someone's code.
19:52:26	disruptek	who guaranteed it?
19:52:27	disruptek	how?
19:52:40	Zevv	we know, right?
19:52:52	Zevv	oh, wait, there could be two scopes both using an 'i'
19:53:03	disruptek	my new scopes only know what they don't know, ironically.
19:53:13	disruptek	ie. you cannot query them for local scope.
19:53:15	Zevv	ok, so rewrite 'var i = 42' to 'template i = env(c).i_123123; i = 42'
19:53:22	*	maier joined #nim
19:53:24	disruptek	yes.
19:53:26	Zevv	cool
19:53:52	FromDiscord	<Varriount> disruptek: Are you re-implementing lambda lifting in a macro?
19:53:55	Zevv	are we just stupid or is just still pretty hard all
19:54:11	disruptek	i think we're just dumb.
19:54:17	disruptek	but, i think this approach is dumb, too.
19:54:31	disruptek	we've made it harder than it needs to be. probably by an order of magnitude or more.
19:54:40	disruptek	but that's okay. we need experience using it.
19:54:48	FromDiscord	<Varriount> What do you mean by "approach"?
19:54:48	disruptek	it's hard to use software that hasn't been written.
19:55:01	disruptek	this impl sucks a big donkey dick.
19:55:07	Zevv	Varriount: well, it's just the current implementation
19:55:23	Zevv	disruptek made something that kind of works but is hacky all the way
19:55:38	Zevv	so now we're looking to see what was learned from that approach, considering use cases and see how we can make it better
19:55:56	Zevv	but over the last 3 days he was too stoned to have proper conversations and went into type and lambda limbo
19:56:00	Zevv	luckily he's back now
19:57:24	disruptek	lol
19:57:33	disruptek	i was watching teevee.
19:57:38	Zevv	and playing wow.
19:57:53	Zevv	don't watch teevee man. just don't.
19:57:55	disruptek	i finally hooked it up so bentley could bark at animals /inside/ the rv.
19:58:05	*	maier quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
19:58:09	Zevv	I threw mine out 20 years ago.
19:58:23	disruptek	i've had periods where i quit for a few years.
19:58:45	Zevv	I think it was one of the best decisions in my life. The time saved and spent on other things is amazing
19:59:02	disruptek	true, but modern telly isn't the same as it was.
19:59:10	FromDiscord	<Varriount> So I did some (likely naive) benchmarking for EC2 instances last night
19:59:13	skrylar[m]	hoi
19:59:20	Zevv	I'm an old fart, but somehow I'm ahead of most of the new kids on the block, still. I know I'm not much smarter, so it must be because I spent more time doing things that make me *look* smarter
19:59:35	skrylar[m]	my teevee hasn't had a coax connection for years :3
19:59:47	FromDiscord	<Varriount> apparently the new A instances have the most processing power per $
20:00:53	disruptek	now goto doesn't crash. also, it doesn't goto.
20:01:26	Zevv	progress
20:03:02	disruptek	your goto is nuts, btw.
20:04:17	Zevv	why
20:04:47	disruptek	well, it doesn't make any sense.
20:05:02	disruptek	you store a ref and then you return the same object.
20:05:11	disruptek	you should be storing the fn.
20:05:31	disruptek	right?
20:05:37	Zevv	no, the whole continuation. Fn + data
20:05:44	Zevv	that's what a continuation is.
20:06:09	disruptek	but if the continuation doesn't change, what's the point?
20:06:16	Zevv	there is no point
20:06:29	disruptek	it's a ref that you're storing. it can never go anywhere.
20:06:54	Zevv	ah, throw it out then, it was never ment to go in
20:07:18	disruptek	let's just store it by value.
20:10:44	disruptek	now i have to figure out git again.
20:12:10	disruptek	i guess you want to cherry pick that.
20:12:29	disruptek	or see my goats branch.
20:14:46	Zevv	right
20:16:06	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> when i try to compile with `--cpu:i386` i get this:↵`error: size of array 'Nim↵_and_C_compiler_disagree_on_target_architecture' is negative`↵any idea on how to fix it?
20:16:58	disruptek	Zevv: performance says Nim closure iterators are 2.051700488716445 times faster
20:17:08	disruptek	roughly.
20:18:11	disruptek	only about 20% slower on markAndSweep.
20:19:25	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> @Recruit_main707 what's your C compiler?
20:19:38	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> First try this
20:19:50	Zevv	disruptek: \o/
20:19:54	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> --passC:-m32 --passL:-m32
20:20:06	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Add this after the CPU thing
20:20:37	Zevv	that's more like it
20:20:58	Zevv	and I guess that is because we split too often, still
20:21:01	disruptek	we are still doing extra copies, though, until the tail template goes in.
20:21:07	disruptek	yes, that too.
20:21:16	disruptek	that stuff might be optimized out, though.
20:25:49	disruptek	we could probably add some inline hints to generated procs, too.
20:27:02	Zevv	we should do experiments one day with true tail calls
20:27:08	Zevv	so how the C compiler handles that
20:27:20	Zevv	one day
20:27:43	FromDiscord	<Chapl> I'd like to escape the ast of the type and gen a top level statement but I just can't or the compiler just won't let me do it. <https://hastebin.com/areqolexex.cs> <https://hastebin.com/oqukonocex.php>
20:28:44	disruptek	you can't go "up".
20:28:55	FromDiscord	<Chapl> ffs
20:29:14	disruptek	it wouldn't make any sense, compositionally.
20:29:20	disruptek	what are you trying to do?
20:29:31	FromDiscord	<Chapl> Do I really have to declare a `static:` block in order to populate the according builder functions?
20:29:35	disruptek	if, "merely find the edge of the envelope", well, you found it.
20:29:40	FromDiscord	<Chapl> (edit) 'Do I really have to declare a `static:` block in order to ... populate' => 'Do I really have to declare a `static:` block in order toscan the type for the pragmas and'
20:30:11	disruptek	you can put your type under some other macro, right?
20:30:17	disruptek	then simply edit it and return it. boom.
20:30:19	FromDiscord	<Chapl> wdym
20:30:21	disruptek	you're at top-level.
20:30:37	disruptek	buildsomething: type Config = ...
20:30:51	FromDiscord	<Chapl> that's what I'd like to avoid because this looks like real crap.
20:31:20	disruptek	well, nim is software for solving problems. if you tell us what the problem is, maybe we can help.
20:31:36	disruptek	i see a lot of boilerplate. nim isn't great at writing lots of verbosity.
20:31:43	disruptek	if you are looking for that, try java or c#.
20:32:50	FromDiscord	<lqdev> @Chapl you can always call the macro afterwards as a regular statement `builder(MyType)` and use getTypeImpl on the sym you get
20:33:00	FromDiscord	<lqdev> just keep in mind the param to the macro must be `typed` in that case
20:33:11	disruptek	well, it would be, already.
20:33:42	*	audiophile joined #nim
20:34:54	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> @lqdev I think for some reason Chapl doesn't want to call it explicitly at all
20:35:04	FromDiscord	<Chapl> 100 points to Yardanico
20:35:15	FromDiscord	<Chapl> Sorry, a bigillion points
20:35:18	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> But I think it's weird really
20:35:20	disruptek	well, he lost me at .toggle.
20:35:31	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> And not really possible since you can't go up, you're in a type block
20:35:41	disruptek	chapl: don't i remember you from my stream?
20:35:48	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> You can't just insert a proc there
20:36:01	disruptek	well, technically, you can.
20:36:08	disruptek	but never mind. 😉
20:36:24	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Well you can but it wouldn't committee
20:36:27	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Compile*
20:36:30	*	audiofile quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
20:36:38	*	audiophile is now known as audiofile
20:36:40	FromDiscord	<Chapl> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/2sTL
20:37:43	*	narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
20:38:14	disruptek	if you have questions about what you've read in the manual, this is a good place to ask.
20:38:20	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Well as we said, you can do that if you call the macro after the type. You could even just call it without any arguments (and store the fields in a compile time seq)
20:38:44	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> For your builder funcs
20:38:45	disruptek	or pass the type section as an argument, as i suggested.
20:38:51	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Yeah
20:39:15	disruptek	or put a macro on the object definition.
20:39:25	disruptek	your macro is on the symbol.
20:39:30	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Also there's really not a lot of ways to *document* macros
20:39:42	FromDiscord	<Chapl> Just tell me: I can't avoid `static: <br> composeBuilderFunctions(Configuration)` and call it at top level
20:39:45	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> The macro module tells you the AST representation for most types of symbols
20:39:49	FromDiscord	<Chapl> (edit) 'and call' => 'orcall'
20:39:51	disruptek	of course you can.
20:40:13	disruptek	types are always compile-time.
20:40:29	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> You don't need static
20:40:34	disruptek	type goatse = object {.buildme.} ...
20:40:38	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> But you need to somehow call your macro somewhere
20:40:52	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Because you can't insert funcs right in the type definition
20:40:57	FromDiscord	<Chapl> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/739221149053091860/unknown.png
20:40:59	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> If wouldn't make sense
20:41:47	FromDiscord	<Chapl> > Because you can't insert funcs right in the type definition↵I do not want to declare funcs or procs in a type's space. I'd like to gen the ast for the funcs/procs in top level.
20:41:47	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> So you need some other place to insert the funcs in
20:42:05	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Yes, but you can't "go up" really as Disruptek said
20:42:23	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> You can't go to the module AST level from the object field, no AST does that
20:42:29	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> AST is not circular
20:42:36	*	Guest37688 is now known as dadada
20:43:10	FromDiscord	<Chapl> Please please please walk me through how to implement the idea I have because I'm starting to lose it all
20:43:28	disruptek	AIIIEEEE!
20:44:05	disruptek	did you ever see this movie?
20:44:20	FromDiscord	<Chapl> I wouldn't assume that AIIIEEEE is a movie at all.
20:44:33	FromDiscord	<Chapl> I wouldn't even assume that AIIIEEEE is a movie *
20:44:40	disruptek	WHEN ANIMALS ATTACK!
20:44:49	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Keep all your fields annotated just like now, but either put the type block under the macro call like mymacro: \newline type ...↵or after the block call your macro as mymacro(mytype), again, no need for the static block
20:44:56	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Anyways sorry, I'm going to sleep now
20:44:57	FromDiscord	<Chapl> Because this looked like you were smashing your head on the keyboard and swiped it forth and back pressing random keys
20:46:29	disruptek	my advice is not to practice.
20:46:33	disruptek	do, or do not.
20:47:39	disruptek	if you need some examples of what not to do, check my repos. i think i've published something like 130k loc.
20:48:08	FromDiscord	<Chapl> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/2sTO
20:48:37	disruptek	i have no idea what that means.
20:48:52	FromDiscord	<Chapl> You don't.
20:48:57	FromDiscord	<Chapl> Have to understand
20:49:34	disruptek	i know how to answer this part: "Am I right?"
20:49:39	disruptek	the answer is, "Nope."
20:49:55	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Chapl: Can you post a link to an example of what you're trying to achieve?
20:50:21	FromDiscord	<Chapl> I tried to explain it like three times. I won't. Simple version: Java's Lombok but with Nim Macros.
20:50:43	disruptek	ah, see.
20:50:46	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Yes, but often it's much easier to understand an example, rather than a description.
20:50:52	disruptek	lombok is a boilerplate generator for java.
20:51:14	FromDiscord	<Chapl> There's not much to it to explain. Look up Java Lombok and you'll understand in an instant.
20:52:17	FromDiscord	<Chapl> I agree with Araq that builders are not necessarily needed because you can do the `with:` thingy or just assign the fields. BUT, I'd like to get to know Nim's "killer feature"
20:53:04	FromDiscord	<Chapl> And I figured this would be good way to practice the macro ast gen
20:53:07	disruptek	well, you're not exactly impressing us with your open mind.
20:53:08	FromDiscord	<Varriount> So, generating procedures from a pragma in a type definition isn't possible, but generating procedures from a pragma in a procedure is
20:53:24	FromDiscord	<Chapl> > your open mind.↵please elaborate
20:53:26	disruptek	that's not true, either.
20:53:38	disruptek	it's certainly possible to generate procs from a pragma in a typedef.
20:54:08	disruptek	if you want to be sure that you cannot use the type unless it is processed, then that's certainly as option as well.
20:54:20	disruptek	but, there is a reason these things work the way they do.
20:54:23	FromDiscord	<Chapl> > well, you're not exactly impressing us with your open mind.↵wdym. I'd like to know
20:54:29	FromDiscord	<Varriount> disruptek: You could be a bit less inflammatory.
20:54:43	disruptek	you might not understand the rationale behind the reasoning, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
20:54:58	disruptek	it's worth making an investment to understand the perspective that brought about these designs.
20:55:03	FromDiscord	<Varriount> disruptek: How? A function implementation cannot be present in a type definition
20:55:13	disruptek	it would help you to better leverage the technology if you could concede its origin story.
20:55:29	disruptek	varriount: it certainly can.
20:55:32	disruptek	but also, who cares?
20:56:01	disruptek	express the problem, then express the solution in nim.
20:56:58	disruptek	there are problems in java which just don't exist in nim, and the converse is true, of course.
20:57:34	disruptek	i don't bring problems from other languages to my problem-solving language, i bring solutions.
20:57:55	disruptek	i love the way concurrency works in javascript, but i don't want to replicate the js ecosystem in nim.
20:58:12	FromDiscord	<Rika> i think what disruptek is essentially saying is that this idea isnt a good practice idea for nim macros
20:58:12	disruptek	i love the elegance of python but i don't want to replicate the performance in nim.
20:58:57	disruptek	i love the power of c but i don't want to replicate its macros or oop system.
21:00:25	FromDiscord	<Varriount> disruptek: How would you generate a function implementation in a type definition?
21:01:06	disruptek	untyped ast doesn't need to compile.
21:02:04	FromDiscord	<Varriount> But that would require passing the entire type block into a macro. I was talking about using a pragma in a standard type definition block.
21:02:25	disruptek	nnkIdentDef?
21:02:33	disruptek	it cannot be done.
21:02:54	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Which is what I said
21:02:56	disruptek	well, except as a lambda, maybe.
21:03:12	FromDiscord	<Chapl> > i think what disruptek is essentially saying is that this idea isnt a good practice idea for nim macros↵I'm not trying to bring this builder pattern nor the idea into Nim. I was saying that I figured it being a good way to practice Nim macros.
21:03:17	disruptek	but it doesn't need to compile.
21:03:54	disruptek	what have you written in nim thus far?
21:04:25	*	oriba joined #nim
21:04:37	FromDiscord	<Chapl> Who're you talking to? Me?
21:04:42	disruptek	yes.
21:04:51	disruptek	i don't care what these other bozos have written.
21:05:06	disruptek	especially rika.
21:05:08	FromDiscord	<Chapl> Nothing production- or library-wise.
21:05:15	disruptek	but what?
21:06:04	FromDiscord	<Rika> lol
21:06:09	FromDiscord	<Chapl> Nothing, I've been playing with Nim here and there. I found myself after some good long time installing Nim in my WSL installation and thought about playing with it.
21:06:12	*	maier joined #nim
21:06:41	disruptek	my advice is to tackle macros last.
21:07:01	FromDiscord	<Varriount> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2sTU
21:07:45	*	nikita` quit (Quit: leaving)
21:08:06	disruptek	i dunno, but is this really the best we can do with discord pastes?
21:08:09	disruptek	because it sucks.
21:08:57	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Here: https://gist.github.com/Varriount/583a12051d9c0cfe9fdc64d3466a082c
21:09:02	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> Tell IRC people to define special types of messages for code psstes :)
21:09:16	disruptek	just fucking put it in a command block.
21:09:32	disruptek	s/command/comment/
21:09:46	disruptek	varriount: i have no idea how that would work.
21:09:56	disruptek	i would use a pragma on the typedef.
21:10:24	*	sagax quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
21:10:40	*	sagax joined #nim
21:10:40	*	sagax quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
21:11:24	disruptek	chapl: find something (else) that annoys you and fix it with nim. the smallest thing you can think of. success will embolden you to achieve greater things.
21:11:30	*	maier quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
21:11:49	FromDiscord	<Varriount> By "typedef", do you mean inside the definition of "TwoType"?
21:11:51	disruptek	also, pay no attention to me.
21:12:47	disruptek	yes, on the type itself.
21:14:02	FromDiscord	<haxscramper> How can I use `getTypeImpl` for `ref` objects? I.e. I have `A = ref object` and when I use `getTypeImpl` I'm stuck with `nnkSym` node and cannot get the actual definition AST.
21:14:47	FromDiscord	<Varriount> disruptek: Like this? https://gist.github.com/Varriount/4d4358d352c2a26bd0f6ba3ae25cbab1
21:15:16	disruptek	sure, but why is it on two lines, weirdo?
21:16:10	FromDiscord	<Varriount> How would the macro emit the function definition though? As far as I know, the compiler won't accept a function definition AST in a type definition block AST
21:16:10	disruptek	anyway, the point is that you can't process this stuff except from above. and why would you want to?
21:16:36	disruptek	of course, but as it is untyped, it can be composed from below if you're a sadist.
21:18:14	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Where does 'untyped' come into play? I'm aware that a macro's parameters can be untyped, but it's output has to be a "correct" AST if it's emitting code at the module-level (not inside another macro).
21:18:43	disruptek	i just told you.
21:19:42	FromDiscord	<haxscramper> Just save AST via `toStrLit()` to separate file, copy all project to separate directory, launch another compiler process via `staticExec`, compile code and then kill original compiler process. Now you can emit anything from any position in AST.
21:21:10	FromDiscord	<Varriount> disruptek: You may have told me, but I'm telling you that I don't understand your explanation, so could you please be a bit more descriptive.
21:21:51	disruptek	the macro would emit the function definition by teasing it from the type section.
21:21:51	Zevv	how do I iterate over object members again?
21:21:54	Zevv	fieldnames?
21:21:57	disruptek	fieldpairs
21:22:01	Zevv	right
21:22:28	Zevv	could I also iterate over fields of a Type instead of a value?
21:22:36	disruptek	i will permit it.
21:22:40	Zevv	thank you
21:23:26	disruptek	are you going to do the tail templates?
21:23:27	FromDiscord	<Elegant Beef> Where would we be without your permission disruptek
21:23:31	Zevv	no the head templates
21:23:52	disruptek	we already have those, no?
21:23:52	Zevv	I'm making a complete mock manual transferred proc
21:23:52	Zevv	to discuss
21:23:52	Zevv	I want to automate more
21:23:53	Zevv	less clutter
21:23:55	disruptek	okay.
21:24:15	Zevv	but I want to iterate over *type* fields
21:24:36	disruptek	i just want to warn you that the type may not be finalized when you do this.
21:24:45	disruptek	just consider that possibility.
21:25:47	Zevv	we will go *so* *very* typed on this
21:26:27	disruptek	well, you can try.
21:30:30	*	NimBot joined #nim
21:30:31	Zevv	dude this is cumbersome and tedious
21:30:34	*	solitudesf quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
21:30:36	Zevv	doing all that transform stuff by hand
21:30:48	disruptek	oh yeah?
21:30:59	disruptek	in two weeks we get to start over.
21:31:32	disruptek	without macros. 😈
21:38:34	Zevv	tell me
21:38:36	Zevv	I have a ref object T
21:38:42	Zevv	sizeof(T) is now the size of the ref
21:38:47	Zevv	how do I get the size of the T
21:38:52	Zevv	sizeof(T[]) is not valid
21:40:13	disruptek	that would be a cool idea.
21:40:22	Zevv	I need that
21:40:24	Zevv	and I need it now
21:40:35	disruptek	you have to getType and unwrap the ref() around it.
21:41:20	Zevv	I'm not in a macro
21:41:24	Zevv	anyway, nevermind
21:41:49	Zevv	I have now this
21:41:50	Zevv	http://ix.io/2sU0/nim
21:41:51	disruptek	oh, then you're fucked.
21:42:08	Zevv	it creates an Env type for each split proc
21:42:14	Zevv	and these use the stack frame philosophy
21:42:28	Zevv	so note that in Env_foo_6 and onwards, 'j' changed into a string
21:42:33	disruptek	but...
21:42:37	Zevv	no buts
21:42:48	disruptek	this is what we started with.
21:42:48	Zevv	ok, *tiny* buts
21:43:00	Zevv	I know I know
21:43:07	Zevv	but it's a bit bigger
21:43:15	Zevv	and now I want to know what we want to change
21:43:17	Zevv	this is the starting point
21:43:45	disruptek	well, if you may the env produce unique types, you will find that it outputs them.
21:44:15	disruptek	it only outputs one right now because of isWritten(): bool.
21:44:20	Zevv	ok
21:44:29	Zevv	but looking at that snippet. What do we want to change about this
21:44:51	disruptek	i would change two things that will make it more useful to us:
21:45:00	Zevv	note that it's not quite what we started with
21:45:14	disruptek	make sleep return nil, and make it take a constant argument.
21:45:32	disruptek	then impl noop(c: C): C = c
21:45:52	disruptek	it's useful to have a way to test the scope.
21:46:00	Zevv	ok
21:46:26	Zevv	but the transformation
21:46:27	disruptek	what's nice about inheritance is that we can make assumptions about the location of values in scope.
21:46:41	Zevv	what's nice about this is that we reuse space
21:46:51	disruptek	if you want to move forward with your stack accretion concept, that's a nice assumption to be able to make.
21:48:40	Zevv	this can be inherited as well I guess, but then it will be a real trie structure
21:48:45	Zevv	let me rework this
21:48:57	disruptek	well, that cast doesn't work, for example.
21:49:08	Zevv	which cast
21:49:13	Zevv	all of them?
21:49:42	disruptek	yes?
21:49:48	Zevv	why
21:49:58	Zevv	this works
21:50:05	disruptek	you don't know the position of the var unless you add every var to every type, right?
21:50:20	Zevv	not if you inherit, it boils down to the same stuff
21:50:22	Zevv	ow wait packing
21:50:29	disruptek	if you inherit, it's fine.
21:50:33	disruptek	not elsewise.
21:50:37	Zevv	now it's fine
21:50:51	Zevv	vars from outer scopes go in top, and are always at the same place
21:50:56	Zevv	oredering matters
21:51:05	Zevv	but could also be inherited i guess
21:51:14	disruptek	and it is. 😁
21:52:02	Zevv	ok, works as well
21:52:20	Zevv	http://ix.io/2sU2/nim
21:52:32	Zevv	and it's cleaner to read, you can see what comes in new where
21:53:56	Zevv	but it's harder to lift like this
21:53:58	Zevv	bro do you even
21:55:43	disruptek	now you can stop casting.
21:56:15	Zevv	nope
21:56:15	disruptek	i really have my doubts that lifting is even a thing.
21:56:39	Zevv	still need to cast. Can't convert from 5 to 6
21:56:45	Zevv	'j' gets a new type
21:57:20	disruptek	so how would your cast work?
21:57:30	Zevv	the old 'j' from 5 falls out of scope
21:57:32	Zevv	that was an int
21:57:36	Zevv	then we go to scope 6
21:57:41	Zevv	there happens to be a new variable
21:57:44	Zevv	also accidentally called j
21:57:46	Zevv	but now it is a string
21:57:51	Zevv	5 contunues to 6
21:57:59	Zevv	int j can go out
21:58:00	Zevv	but now string j comes in
21:58:10	Zevv	contnuation needs to go from type 5 to type 6
21:58:28	Zevv	you can't convert horizontally over a tree of inherited types, only vertically
21:58:41	disruptek	yes, but if it's gensym'd, it doesn't need a cast.
21:58:49	disruptek	it already has a unique name and type.
21:59:08	Zevv	no, it's about the layout of the underlying C struct.
21:59:13	Zevv	It goes from 'int int int' to 'int int string'
21:59:19	Zevv	that's not convertible
22:00:09	disruptek	the code we have today goes `int int int string`, right?
22:00:15	Zevv	right
22:00:15	disruptek	so what's the problem?
22:00:23	Zevv	of the code we have today?
22:00:35	Zevv	the extra storage, that's all
22:00:44	Zevv	if that is no problem, stuff is simpler
22:01:05	Zevv	and I'm making things more complicated then needed
22:01:16	Zevv	I don't know either. This is where we friggin started!
22:01:22	disruptek	well, you told me you wanted one alloc. 🤣
22:01:31	Zevv	yes but this ix example is 1 alloc!
22:01:38	Zevv	this is as optimal as it can get
22:01:45	Zevv	it is 1 alloc, as small as possible
22:02:10	disruptek	sure, but...
22:02:35	Zevv	this is like as if we put the stack on the heap
22:02:53	disruptek	the impression i got is that you wanted all calls to operate on the same type.
22:02:55	disruptek	ideally.
22:03:16	disruptek	whatfer alloc frag reasons or something.
22:03:34	Zevv	well, they do now, basicaly. Excepty for the casting to get stuff out :)
22:03:43	Zevv	but this is literally what I just say: The stack is now on the heap
22:03:54	Zevv	it grows, it shrinks. We just moved that to the heap.
22:04:02	disruptek	the original impl worked like this 2sU2 i'm looking at.
22:04:12	Zevv	yeah
22:04:26	Zevv	but it alloced a new frame for each call
22:04:30	Zevv	that was baaad mkah
22:04:38	disruptek	sure.
22:04:52	Zevv	this has 1 alloc. It's just a blob of memory. It adds variables as the come into scope, drops them if they move out
22:04:58	Zevv	but it's all the same block. It is a *stack*
22:06:01	Zevv	the whole point: if you want have multiple threads of something, you need each one to have it's own stack. And after two feeks of fiddling, what I just wrote is just that
22:06:08	Zevv	is this good or is this bad or a friggin waste of time?!
22:06:12	Zevv	I don't know
22:06:15	Zevv	reinventing wheels
22:06:57	disruptek	well, it seems self-evident that it's both correct and minimal.
22:07:09	Zevv	that's quite a relief :)
22:07:27	disruptek	but i personally don't care for the concession to memory usage.
22:07:44	Zevv	ok, fair enough
22:07:51	Zevv	so for sake of simplicity, all the envs drop into 1
22:07:54	disruptek	ie. just because it's as good as it was doesn't excite me.
22:08:07	disruptek	technically, it could be better.
22:08:10	Zevv	ok
22:08:21	disruptek	ie. we can drop from the stack that which we no longer need.
22:08:55	FromDiscord	<Elegant Beef> @treeform in fidget is there a way to get non character inputs from the keyboard?
22:09:18	FromDiscord	<Elegant Beef> arrows/return and the like
22:10:53	Zevv	disruptek: so we get http://ix.io/2sUa/nim
22:11:10	disruptek	Zevv: it's not simplicity that governs our current design now, it's the whens.
22:11:12	Zevv	oh wait
22:11:46	disruptek	i mean, i'm not bothering to run this stuff. am i supposed to?
22:11:49	Zevv	http://ix.io/2sUb/nim
22:11:59	disruptek	it's okay if it doesn't work.
22:12:05	Zevv	we get this. All envs in one big blob
22:12:08	Zevv	no casts, not magic
22:12:40	Zevv	so can we make this from what we have now
22:12:44	Zevv	drop all the funny when stuff
22:12:55	Zevv	clean up, maybe get the octuple returns out
22:14:46	disruptek	the when stuff is gone, right?
22:14:52	Zevv	right
22:15:08	disruptek	so you just don't want double returns?
22:15:25	disruptek	and rm var/let sections.
22:15:39	Zevv	the double returns is just whining of course
22:15:50	Zevv	but what you have is pretty close to this stuff I just dumped
22:15:51	disruptek	i don't want them, either.
22:15:54	Zevv	so why throw it all out
22:16:13	disruptek	they are an artifact. i'm not trying to throw stuff away.
22:16:39	disruptek	i do want free goto, though.
22:16:39	Zevv	no I mean, why start from scratch, if what you have now is pretty close to what seems to be obviously correct and minimal
22:16:55	Zevv	the problem was mostly in the allocs
22:17:02	disruptek	it doesn't have to be from scratch.
22:17:07	Zevv	right
22:17:43	Zevv	I know you want to get rid of the env implementation
22:18:04	disruptek	here's a question.
22:18:26	disruptek	does adding a name to the current scope create a new scope holding that name, or does it change the existing scope?
22:19:02	Zevv	it grows the scope, because all the other stuff that were in the previous scope are also in the new scope
22:19:29	Zevv	so it grows the existing scope
22:20:22	disruptek	okay.
22:21:12	Zevv	but all this practical stuff - it is far from the philosophical musings you had the last few days
22:21:12	disruptek	so the reason i want to change the env impl is that i get clash handling "for free" as a side-effect of the semantics of scope-based, uh, scope tracking.
22:21:41	disruptek	well, i still want my simpler compositions and syntax.
22:21:50	Zevv	sure
22:21:54	Zevv	but that doesn't bite
22:21:58	disruptek	what?
22:22:02	Zevv	(Btw, https://github.com/disruptek/cps/blob/master/talk-talk/manual2.nim is the ix, just checked it in)
22:22:12	disruptek	okay.
22:22:25	Zevv	you need to make some diner right
22:22:30	disruptek	lol
22:22:39	Zevv	i need some sleep
22:22:46	disruptek	sleep tight, zevv.
22:22:54	Zevv	same dude, laters!
22:41:26	*	vicfred quit (Quit: Leaving)
22:51:37	*	leorize quit (Remote host closed the connection)
22:52:08	*	leorize joined #nim
23:03:09	FromGitter	<gogolxdong> Any project
23:05:41	FromGitter	<gogolxdong> Does anyone know any well-known project written in Nim?
23:07:05	*	maier joined #nim
23:07:42	FromGitter	<gogolxdong> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/wiki/Companies-using-Nim Is this enough?
23:11:45	*	maier quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:12:18	leorize	the Nim compiler is a well-known one :P
23:12:39	leorize	there's also nimbus, the etherium 2 implementation
23:12:59	leorize	also nitter, a privacy frontend for twitter
23:17:25	*	dadada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:19:30	*	dadada joined #nim
23:19:37	disruptek	shallow people are impressed by vim cubed.
23:19:46	disruptek	thousands of 'em.
23:19:53	*	dadada is now known as Guest9637
23:21:21	*	vicfred joined #nim
23:21:25	*	Senketsu quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:24:37	shashlick	Nim is probably a secret weapon for some companies, who knows
23:25:23	federico3	that list is so sad :(
23:25:40	disruptek	there's no accounting for taste.
23:26:17	disruptek	it's probably because our community is so toxic to new folks.
23:27:11	FromDiscord	<Ricky Spanish> yep that list is way shorter than deserved, community size on discord too to be fair, iv only been using a few days but iv found it atleast as useable and useful as vlang, golang and rust with the exception being the number of learning materials isnt as great as rust....i disagree about the community...i actually liked the people i spoke to here...
23:27:40	disruptek	i'm just teasing varriount.
23:28:11	FromDiscord	<Ricky Spanish> ah my bad just jumped in at the end 😆
23:28:36	disruptek	i mean, it's a good report and it's nice to hear.
23:33:55	disruptek	for some people, a rusty tool doesn't matter.
23:33:59	disruptek	for the rest of us, there's nim.
23:34:49	*	Guest9637 is now known as dadada
23:39:51	FromDiscord	<Ricky Spanish> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/2sUq
23:40:35	FromDiscord	<Ricky Spanish> when i re-found nim...it was very clear it was for systems
23:41:29	FromDiscord	<Varriount> disruptek: Now that I think about it, is there any technical reason a macro couldn't be able to modify the AST tree *ahead* of its call site?
23:42:24	FromDiscord	<Varriount> It can't modify already processed nodes, beecause they're... already processed, but nodes "ahead" of it haven't been processed yet.
23:42:52	FromDiscord	<Varriount> *ahead of it and it's parents
23:51:37	FromDiscord	<Elegant Beef> @Ricky Spanish Yea i've actually had to point out that nim isnt an intepreted language a few times when i evangalized it 😄
23:54:40	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Also, people seem to think that GC == slow (which is probably why Go calls references "pointers", to throw people off the scent)
23:55:19	FromGitter	<binhonglee> Hi all, I have a question about compiling a macos binary from linux
23:55:49	FromDiscord	<Elegant Beef> I mean varriount i recently spoke to someone that said "ARC is always slower than GC"
23:55:55	FromDiscord	<Elegant Beef> So im super confused why nim's ARCis so fast
23:56:00	FromDiscord	<Elegant Beef> (edit) 'ARCis' => 'ARC is'
23:56:12	FromDiscord	<Varriount> It depends on what you mean by "fast"
23:56:40	FromDiscord	<Elegant Beef> Well the benchmarks that were shown off at nimconf seems to indicate it's vastly faster than the GC options
23:56:46	FromDiscord	<Elegant Beef> In those cases
23:56:53	FromDiscord	<Ricky Spanish> well im a little guilty on the gc front tbh, but atleast nim has the option to disable it giving me the option for each project so having the option to learn a language and trusting me to decide whats right as i need seems revolutionary to me
23:56:56	FromDiscord	<Varriount> The garbage collectors that Java and C# tend to use are "fast" in that they allow allocating memory very quickly
23:57:08	FromGitter	<binhonglee> I have a file that only have 1 line : `import httpClient` ⏎ ⏎ and compiling it like this: ⏎ `nim c --os:macosx -d:emscripten -d:ssl --cpu:amd64 -t:-m64 -l:-m64 x.nim` ⏎ ... [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5f26015403d73b60ee5e7ead]
23:58:10	*	krux02_ joined #nim
23:58:37	FromDiscord	<Varriount> This might yield some answers. Looks like a missing library or header path? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/58741942/event-h-no-such-file-or-directory-even-when-libevent-dev-is-installed
23:59:33	FromDiscord	<Varriount> @binhonglee What OS are you using?
23:59:36	*	oriba quit (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)