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| 03:39:08 | FromGitter | <AmberSaber> nim中文网站上线了，一和令人兴奋的里程碑事件 |
| 03:40:25 | FromGitter | <AmberSaber> Nim Chinese website is online,the thing is exciting and a milestones |
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| 05:11:02 | Araq | federico3: unfortunately it requires a stdlib extension... :-) |
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| 05:14:33 | owl_000 | https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=1Utz how to write object to a file, and load it again. `writeFile` just write string to a file, to convert that string to object do i need to make parser? please look at the code. |
| 05:17:11 | FromGitter | <alehander42> yes, that's called serialization iirc |
| 05:17:51 | FromGitter | <alehander42> many languages have something like a builtin format for their objects, called marshalling but i think it's not used much, because you can't really read it well with other tools/langs |
| 05:18:06 | FromGitter | <alehander42> so usually people use something like json/yaml/binary formats/their own format |
| 05:18:45 | FromGitter | <alehander42> in your case i guess json or yaml would work |
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| 05:23:44 | owl_000 | for example, in python i just used `pickle`, `pickle.dump(object, outputfile)`, i found something simillar, https://nim-lang.org/0.19.0/marshal.html though hard to understand |
| 05:24:15 | FromGitter | <alehander42> yes, that's marshalling |
| 05:24:33 | FromGitter | <alehander42> but i just don't see the point |
| 05:25:36 | FromGitter | <alehander42> hm, nim's marshalling just reuses json, so it might be fine |
| 05:26:45 | FromGitter | <alehander42> so, pickle.dump is just writeFile(outputfile, dumpOperation(object)) |
| 05:28:54 | owl_000 | but that is the easiest thing. and you were talking about this https://nim-lang.org/docs/json.html ? |
| 05:28:57 | FromGitter | <alehander42> what is dumpOperation? if you use marshal.nim, it's `$$object`, if you use directly json it's e.g. `$(%object)` |
| 05:28:59 | FromGitter | <alehander42> etc |
| 05:29:04 | FromGitter | <alehander42> yes |
| 05:31:10 | owl_000 | thanks a lot. i need some time to grasp those module. |
| 05:33:29 | FromGitter | <alehander42> have you used json |
| 05:33:31 | FromGitter | <alehander42> in other langs |
| 05:35:19 | owl_000 | nope, i used python and pickle only. pickle work fine. fast and any kind of data structure work perfectly. by the way once i tried HDf5 something like that. but it works limited type of object. |
| 05:35:21 | FromGitter | <alehander42> Araq, what do you mean about the `do` notation |
| 05:36:13 | FromGitter | <alehander42> owl_000, ah ok, well json/yaml other formats work in a similar, bit more lang-independent way |
| 05:36:34 | Araq | owl_000: marshal.nim is Nim's "pickle" |
| 05:40:25 | FromGitter | <alehander42> wow the https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/12152 curl command is taking so long for my |
| 05:43:24 | FromGitter | <alehander42> hm, for me its' taking 3.3 |
| 05:43:29 | FromGitter | <alehander42> 1) 4 sec* |
| 05:44:35 | FromGitter | <alehander42> however federico3 this is not a pretty good bench imo |
| 05:44:46 | FromGitter | <alehander42> because in nim, i'd just deserialize directly to the type |
| 05:44:54 | FromGitter | <alehander42> without going through a JsonNode if possible |
| 05:47:07 | FromGitter | <alehander42> this should be faster maybe (i'd also benchmark https://github.com/status-im/nim-json-serialization ) |
| 05:48:35 | FromGitter | <alehander42> but i agree it's not nice that you need to write down a type for this kind of data: but .. ⏎ it might to gen it based on some kind of schema ⏎ or to just have a tool that generates nim types based on example lines, you run it once on the file, it generates a nim type that seems to fit), on the next time you run it with CT known type |
| 05:50:14 | Araq | it's not a benchmark, it's what he is dealing with in the real world |
| 05:50:32 | Araq | I made it 3x faster, but it requires a stdlib patch... :-( |
| 05:50:44 | Araq | I mean, not a patch, an extension |
| 05:51:35 | FromGitter | <alehander42> yeah, but what i meant is that probably it would be better to have this kind of tooling, so one can directly deserialize real world random json documents |
| 05:51:40 | FromGitter | <alehander42> to typed values |
| 05:52:16 | FromGitter | <alehander42> not to json nodes (but maybe the cost of json nodes/packedjson is more in accessing, not in constructing?) |
| 05:53:23 | FromGitter | <alehander42> something like json "schema" inferrence (but yeah, this doesnt work for many other json files where the data isn't well "typed") |
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| 06:31:08 | Araq | driveling? the lack of a schema is not the performance problem |
| 06:32:48 | FromGitter | <alehander42> ok, then why is it slow |
| 06:33:33 | FromGitter | <alehander42> (and even if it is not perf-related, i'd use such a tool: i prefer my json handling typed) |
| 06:40:00 | Araq | the lines iterator is slow, it can be completely avoided with json's design |
| 06:40:09 | Araq | but it requires a new proc in json.nim |
| 06:45:43 | FromGitter | <alehander42> 3x impro |
| 06:45:50 | FromGitter | <alehander42> sounds good enough as a reason |
| 06:46:21 | FromGitter | <alehander42> is that because lines constantly reads small chunks from the file? |
| 06:53:18 | Araq | it's ... just bad for 1MB long lines |
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| 06:58:25 | FromGitter | <alehander42> ok |
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| 09:18:13 | federico3 | alehander42: regardless of other formats or any optimization, a simple parseJson() should be much faster than Python (now it's much slower) |
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| 09:38:11 | livcd | that's a bummer |
| 09:38:34 | federico3 | Araq: I just timed the cycles. Large strings are faster |
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| 09:43:12 | dom96 | is it just me or is this syntax a no-brainer for concepts? https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/12048#issuecomment-529091854 |
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| 09:44:07 | alexander92 | dom96 , the thing i dont get about your argument is |
| 09:44:30 | alexander92 | that this syntax just sees concepts as .. interfaces? |
| 09:44:35 | alexander92 | concepts are not interfaces |
| 09:45:28 | dom96 | concepts are compile-time interfaces |
| 09:46:25 | alexander92 | i feel they are not really comparable |
| 09:46:36 | dom96 | they literally are lol |
| 09:46:47 | alexander92 | well, they are not |
| 09:46:49 | dom96 | as I've demonstrated, you can specify the same things with less code |
| 09:47:05 | dom96 | the extra complexity is simply not worth it |
| 09:47:38 | alexander92 | in this particular case you can do that indeed |
| 09:48:14 | alexander92 | but i viewed as a more general mechanism, which just happens sometimes to be similar to interfaces |
| 09:48:19 | alexander92 | viewed them* |
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| 09:48:27 | dom96 | a more general mechanism for what? |
| 09:48:36 | dom96 | They are used to specify whether a type is accepted or not |
| 09:49:46 | alexander92 | evaluating if a semantic match will be true in certain situations |
| 09:50:46 | alexander92 | but "this type has such an overload" is just one possible thing to evaluate |
| 09:51:01 | dom96 | what else would you evaluate? |
| 09:51:25 | dom96 | like I said, I bet there are niche cases but I doubt they are important enough to warrant this extra complexity |
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| 09:51:44 | dom96 | and I strongly believe that it is very difficult to understand what a concept actually specifies |
| 09:53:49 | alexander92 | it's a good question: i'd love to see more examples too (but there has been so many discussions and rationale-s, that i think those things surely have been explained before) |
| 09:54:09 | dom96 | Anyway, I think I'll create an RFC for this |
| 09:54:10 | alexander92 | do you mean, that the current syntax is harder to read? |
| 09:54:18 | alexander92 | sounds good |
| 09:54:25 | dom96 | the current syntax requires evaluation in your head |
| 09:54:32 | alexander92 | but .. |
| 09:54:36 | alexander92 | your syntax does too |
| 09:54:39 | dom96 | if you're wondering what proc you're missing you'll have to go through the full concept |
| 09:54:39 | alexander92 | in some cases |
| 09:54:41 | dom96 | no it doesn't |
| 09:54:42 | alexander92 | your syntax is easier |
| 09:54:47 | alexander92 | but in some the concept is easier |
| 09:54:49 | dom96 | you always have a list of procs/iterators |
| 09:54:49 | alexander92 | because e.g. |
| 09:54:53 | FromGitter | <arnetheduck> concepts say "this code should be possible to run" and it seems like there's a finite set of rules which would make a concept match - it seems that @dom96's interface is effectively what the compiler generates "under the hood" from the concept. I'd have two questions then: a) is there any open-ended rule which the compiler cannot expand, and b) are the so many rules and alternate syntaxes in nim that's its no longer |
| 09:54:53 | FromGitter | ... feasible to write them by hand in an interface (for example because some of the magic around iterators and for loops etc) |
| 09:54:55 | alexander92 | i have to evaluate |
| 09:55:26 | alexander92 | "oh .. so items is called .. when i use for .. oh so this is what it should happen here .. |
| 09:55:40 | dom96 | you should already know this |
| 09:55:49 | alexander92 | but the point is that you should also already know |
| 09:55:51 | dom96 | that's a fundamental thing to know about Nim :P |
| 09:55:52 | alexander92 | how to read concpts |
| 09:55:55 | alexander92 | :P |
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| 09:56:02 | dom96 | yes, but the point is that you need to evaluate a concept |
| 09:56:05 | dom96 | because it is Nim code |
| 09:56:10 | dom96 | that even the compiler has to evaluate at compile-time |
| 09:56:20 | alexander92 | well, it's more of a "those things should type match" |
| 09:56:24 | alexander92 | not really like a macro |
| 09:56:35 | alexander92 | you shouldn't evaluate, but typecheck |
| 09:56:37 | alexander92 | in your head |
| 09:56:43 | alexander92 | which is an important difference imo |
| 09:56:46 | dom96 | var x = type(c.low) # okay, so this takes a type of the `low` proc, and this low proc is called on `c` which is the concept so actually this is the return type of proc low() |
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| 09:57:08 | alexander92 | well, you should know this, it's basic Nim :P |
| 09:57:39 | dom96 | come on |
| 09:57:43 | dom96 | you know what I mean |
| 09:57:48 | alexander92 | i just think in both cases, you need to do some type checking in your head and some juggling |
| 09:57:54 | alexander92 | just with different tradeoffs |
| 09:58:06 | dom96 | I disagree |
| 09:58:12 | FromGitter | <arnetheduck> I get the feeling it quickly gets hairy when you have many potentially matching rules of overloads and alternate syntaxes, that in the end you don't really understand what the concept picks, and just "hope" it works |
| 09:58:14 | alexander92 | as i said, i find some cases easier to read/understand in concepts, and some in method listst |
| 09:58:32 | alexander92 | @dom96 well, that's language design, it's a bit subjective |
| 09:58:55 | alexander92 | i think araq also had some rfc ideas |
| 09:59:51 | alexander92 | and i'll still try to keep in mind c++ discussions about concepts @dom96 |
| 10:00:05 | alexander92 | in a similar way we followed e.g. rust async discussions |
| 10:00:57 | dom96 | but just to be clear: `type(c.low)` # this is being evaluated to get a type |
| 10:01:11 | dom96 | proc low(c: Indexable): T # there is nothing to evaluate here |
| 10:01:22 | alexander92 | i wouldn't call it evaluate: it's just typechecking |
| 10:01:35 | alexander92 | it depends what you mean by |
| 10:01:38 | alexander92 | "evaluating" |
| 10:01:59 | dom96 | no, it is evaluation |
| 10:02:09 | dom96 | type() is a call |
| 10:02:21 | dom96 | it in itself is a procedure |
| 10:02:42 | alexander92 | ok, but you need that in your concepts as well |
| 10:03:07 | alexander92 | i need to be able to say e.g. a(b: int, c: type(arg.low)) |
| 10:03:22 | dom96 | no, you don't |
| 10:03:28 | dom96 | and you shouldn't |
| 10:03:34 | dom96 | you specify this as I've specified it |
| 10:03:45 | dom96 | by writing `proc low(arg: T): Y` |
| 10:04:02 | dom96 | and then you write proc a(b: int, c: Y) |
| 10:04:17 | alexander92 | so do i need to |
| 10:04:21 | alexander92 | i see |
| 10:04:29 | alexander92 | so i need to make Y a generic arg of the concept as well |
| 10:04:50 | dom96 | yes |
| 10:05:09 | alexander92 | dom, just clarifying: i think that the type call in concepts internally does the same thing : it "expands" to a similar typecheck |
| 10:05:21 | alexander92 | so the evaluation is mostly something in my head |
| 10:05:26 | alexander92 | otherwise iagree |
| 10:05:27 | dom96 | I don't think so |
| 10:05:31 | alexander92 | but i'd say .. your syntax is harder |
| 10:05:40 | alexander92 | instead of doing directly c: type(arg.low) |
| 10:05:46 | dom96 | concepts are evaluated at compile-time, just like macros |
| 10:05:49 | alexander92 | i have to find out there is a low declaration |
| 10:06:05 | alexander92 | yes, and like .. normal type checking |
| 10:06:14 | dom96 | it might be a little more to type, but there is in fact less lines of code |
| 10:06:31 | dom96 | normal type checking doesn't evaluate Nim code |
| 10:06:38 | dom96 | it just verifies that types match |
| 10:06:47 | alexander92 | evaluating type checks |
| 10:06:55 | alexander92 | yes, but type doesn't really .. |
| 10:06:58 | alexander92 | call a type ct proc |
| 10:07:00 | alexander92 | i think |
| 10:07:06 | alexander92 | but i have to read more of the impl |
| 10:07:10 | alexander92 | to be sure, you might be right |
| 10:07:30 | dom96 | oh cool, we've got a RFC template now |
| 10:08:18 | alexander92 | but you have to also notice concepts had "return" planned |
| 10:08:23 | alexander92 | with would work iirc for vtables |
| 10:08:34 | alexander92 | and also permits patterns i can't really imagine with normal interfaces |
| 10:08:52 | alexander92 | and which i wanted to use e.g. for my `jsobject` thing etc |
| 10:08:53 | dom96 | what do you mean by "return"? |
| 10:08:56 | alexander92 | (just saying a possible usecase) |
| 10:09:23 | alexander92 | i think it generated a new / or a concrete type which could be used based on the args |
| 10:09:48 | alexander92 | probably similar to c++ concepts' return |
| 10:10:24 | dom96 | well, if you mean runtime concepts then I know what you mean |
| 10:10:32 | alexander92 | overally, i've heard they're more similar to type classes, and c++ concepts |
| 10:10:32 | dom96 | that's likely way easier with my syntax too |
| 10:10:36 | alexander92 | not really interfaces |
| 10:10:53 | alexander92 | but i am just trying to find out the relevant discussion |
| 10:11:18 | dom96 | or actually it might be easier |
| 10:11:27 | dom96 | maybe zah intended to simply evaluate the code in a concept at runtime |
| 10:11:47 | dom96 | with `type(x) is Blah` replaced with `x of Blah` |
| 10:14:20 | alexander92 | no , i dont think so but i am not an expert |
| 10:14:22 | alexander92 | https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/13#issuecomment-298886380 |
| 10:14:41 | alexander92 | just adding one more previous discussion about it |
| 10:16:02 | alexander92 | i see the point in your rfc, but i just feel it's really about a different feature: but i'd love to see the comments |
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| 10:19:13 | dom96 | alexander92, cool, thanks for finding this |
| 10:26:10 | alexander92 | and it's interesting to compare with https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/constraints as well |
| 10:28:12 | alexander92 | but as i said, i am interested in seeing how far would a declaration-list syntax take this: *maybe* those things are somehow expressible |
| 10:28:39 | alexander92 | but even if not, one can currently write a macro that does what your syntax does and use e.g. concepts in the background afaik |
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| 10:31:26 | dom96 | yes, but another argument is that concepts are currently buggy |
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| 10:31:36 | dom96 | my syntax would likely be significantly simpler to implement |
| 10:31:46 | dom96 | but I'll let Araq be the judge of that |
| 10:31:58 | dom96 | honestly wouldn't be surprised if he has a similar syntax in mind |
| 10:32:06 | dom96 | we've talked about simplifying concepts for a long time |
| 10:32:33 | dom96 | yeah, that C++ has it isn't a good argument :P |
| 10:33:53 | dom96 | but nah, I shouldn't make that argument |
| 10:34:08 | dom96 | we should evaluate C++'s constraints indeed |
| 10:34:31 | alexander92 | yes, it's good to have an objective view of it |
| 10:34:36 | clyybber | One "problem" with your syntax is that the name of the proc arguments seems to matter |
| 10:34:52 | dom96 | same problem with proc types |
| 10:34:58 | alexander92 | the bluenote10 comment raises |
| 10:35:00 | alexander92 | good points |
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| 10:36:30 | clyybber | I like the current concept syntax, but I believe we can support both syntaxes at the same time. Its not like they are going to conflict |
| 10:37:06 | alexander92 | @dom96 about the buggy point: if you use just the subset that does "a.<methodname>(stuff) is X" |
| 10:37:19 | alexander92 | i think you shouldn't have bugs |
| 10:37:30 | alexander92 | so i feel one can still make such a syntax on top of it |
| 10:37:50 | dom96 | hrm, I don't think in `x.len` that the `len` can refer to the template or a macro |
| 10:38:04 | dom96 | but if it's `len(x)` then sure |
| 10:38:53 | dom96 | so yeah, good point |
| 10:39:18 | alexander92 | i'd argue this is not the biggest thing: one can imagine a "callable len(x: A): int" |
| 10:39:22 | dom96 | indeed |
| 10:39:29 | alexander92 | but the inferring thing is interestin |
| 10:39:39 | dom96 | and I was just trying to come up with a good name |
| 10:39:41 | dom96 | thanks :) |
| 10:39:55 | alexander92 | np |
| 10:40:21 | dom96 | the inferring is what makes it so difficult to understand |
| 10:40:26 | dom96 | and I think it's a good thing that it's disallowed |
| 10:48:41 | dom96 | Trying to understand what zah means here: |
| 10:48:42 | dom96 | As a minimum, any alternative proposal should also cover how associated types (e.g. Graph.Edge) and constants are defined (e.g. T.zero). |
| 10:48:55 | dom96 | from https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/13#issuecomment-298886380 |
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| 11:04:00 | dom96 | https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/pull/167 |
| 11:11:38 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> Are proc arg brackets not unnecessary? |
| 11:11:38 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> proc too = echo "Hello" |
| 11:11:52 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> Are proc arg brackets not necessary? |
| 11:11:52 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> proc too = echo "Hello" |
| 11:12:02 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> Are proc arg brackets not necessary? |
| 11:12:02 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> proc foo = echo "Hello" |
| 11:13:14 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> proc foo = proc foo() ? |
| 11:13:38 | alexander92 | me2beats hey |
| 11:14:02 | alexander92 | just a tip: please dont edit your discord messages, because they get resent each time, which people might feel spammy |
| 11:14:19 | alexander92 | so, arg brackets are not necessary |
| 11:14:23 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> oh ok |
| 11:14:31 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> cool |
| 11:14:43 | alexander92 | except when you call `noargcall()` i think |
| 11:16:18 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> really newbie. How can I make a module and import it in main? |
| 11:16:49 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> for example this proc foo |
| 11:16:56 | alexander92 | it's fine! |
| 11:17:18 | alexander92 | well, you need to save it in a file, and "export" it with `*` : `proc foo*` (same as making public) |
| 11:17:30 | alexander92 | then you import this file/module |
| 11:17:35 | alexander92 | have you used python |
| 11:17:42 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> + |
| 11:18:11 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> This is my main lang for now |
| 11:19:00 | alexander92 | python? ok so it works similarly, but import module |
| 11:19:16 | alexander92 | means you can directly call foo, no need for `module.foo` (but you can do it as well) |
| 11:19:26 | alexander92 | @dom96 hm .. the problem is that len can be a field |
| 11:19:35 | alexander92 | so callable isn't perfect |
| 11:19:59 | alexander92 | maybe `property` |
| 11:20:12 | alexander92 | not really sure , property is not so good for multi-args tho |
| 11:21:40 | alexander92 | and you should at least mention the inferrence thing, as it's pretty important |
| 11:23:58 | dom96 | it's just a case of coming up with a name |
| 11:24:39 | Araq | dom96: I've evaluated what C++ concepts can do fwiw |
| 11:25:36 | dom96 | Araq, afaik my proposal is very similar to yours, so hopefully you'll like it |
| 11:27:05 | dom96 | bbl, time to go to the store |
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| 11:32:53 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> Can I implicitly import modules from a specific folder? |
| 11:33:21 | Araq | yeah but I'm not gonna show you how because it's a bad idea, instead use the 'prelude' pattern |
| 11:37:07 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> I would like to clarify a bit. |
| 11:37:07 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> that is, in certain cases I do not want to write 'import' lines ... |
| 11:37:07 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> |
| 11:37:08 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> Instead I would like the program to find undeclared variables and, for example, try to first find the module with the appropriate name in a specific folder, and only if the module is not found, throw the 'not declared' error |
| 11:38:13 | owl_000 | read tut 1 |
| 11:40:56 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> https://nim-lang.org/learn.html |
| 11:41:27 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> If you are a total beginner use Bim Basics otherwise Tutorial Part 1 trough 2. |
| 11:41:34 | owl_000 | side note: it is nim lang, things should be done in nim way. if not than every lang will be same. and if you force a lang to behave like other than it will taste bitter. |
| 11:43:12 | alexander92 | me2beats yes, it's important to learn the difference between compile and runtime |
| 11:43:22 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> me2beats: Quick question, what attracted you to Nim ? |
| 11:43:33 | alexander92 | the not declared error is thrown not by your program, but bu the compiler |
| 11:44:15 | alexander92 | overally, you can do something similar with making a file which imports and exports all files in a folder and importing only this file |
| 11:44:23 | alexander92 | but take a look at the tut indeed |
| 11:45:18 | Araq | # myprelude.nim |
| 11:45:33 | Araq | import strutils, os, tables, sets |
| 11:45:39 | Araq | # other code.nim |
| 11:45:46 | Araq | include myprelude |
| 11:46:01 | Araq | # yay, no messing around with imports |
| 11:46:18 | Araq | ^ this is the pattern I meant, it works, it's clear |
| 11:47:02 | livcd | i'd like goimports |
| 11:47:23 | Araq | yeah and I'd like Golang to work like Nim |
| 11:47:35 | owl_000 | lol |
| 11:47:52 | alexander92 | i do this sometimes |
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| 11:53:21 | livcd | :) |
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| 11:57:39 | FromGitter | <mratsim> So what can C++ concepts do? |
| 11:57:55 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> @Kiloneie Well, I read the reviews and they are pretty positive. there is an opinion that nim can provide more flexibility than python, including syntactic ones (tho it hasn't such variety of modules for now) |
| 11:58:55 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> What are you going to use it for ? |
| 11:59:03 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> And it's just an interesting language to learn no doubt |
| 11:59:20 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> Hmm okay, good luck. |
| 12:02:20 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> I think apps with a GUI interface. |
| 12:02:20 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> Maybe simple 2d games. |
| 12:02:30 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> @Kiloneie |
| 12:03:06 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> Okay |
| 12:04:48 | owl_000 | for gui, you can use `nigui`. though many features are missing but easiest one. for full feature windows gui development use `wnim` |
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| 12:20:38 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> thanks |
| 12:21:05 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> if I import all modules from a folder, |
| 12:21:05 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> but I use only a few of them, does this not affect the exe size? |
| 12:22:00 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> file size should be the least of your worries, one does such optimizations later when finishing a program |
| 12:23:10 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> Best way is to just experiment. Import one and then all, and compare to see the difference if it matters at all. |
| 12:28:40 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> Araq: Is this more what you had in mind for an intro to Nim ? https://justpaste.it/703w7 |
| 12:33:01 | clyybber | me2beats: Nim has dead code elimination, so all code that is not used won't end up in the binary |
| 12:41:31 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> Ok cool, so I probably can not worry about it and maybe just import all from such folders |
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| 12:44:56 | alexander92 | yes, that's not a problem |
| 12:46:01 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> if I can advise something to improve the article, then I would advise a little more formatting, highlighting items and key blocks, as well as a few screenshots maybe. |
| 12:48:06 | clyybber | me2beats: Its the script for a video |
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| 12:48:49 | FromDiscord_ | <me2beats> Oh ok:) |
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| 14:21:32 | FromGitter | <zetashift> P |
| 14:38:13 | clyybber | I agree :) |
| 14:41:22 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> Is there any better way than making a additional account on windows 10, so i can have the other one with icons and everything hidden ? Making a new desktop cannot do that. |
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| 14:51:59 | disruptek | why don't you just delete the icons? |
| 14:54:07 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> from my main desktop ? |
| 14:54:54 | disruptek | sure. |
| 14:55:07 | disruptek | what good is an icon you cannot see? |
| 14:55:10 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> No, i need for recording of Nim, a clean desktop, but when not recording, i want that back, so for now i found making another account and moving every icon to my secondary screen is the only way. Maybe theres a better one but i don't know it |
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| 15:48:55 | clyybber | Kiloneie: Been a long time since I last used windows, but I think it was right-click on desktop -> View -> Show/Hide desktop icons |
| 15:54:05 | lqdev[m] | I don't have any icons on my Linux lol |
| 15:54:24 | lqdev[m] | I find them redundant and cluttering my desktop |
| 15:54:35 | disruptek | i don't even have a desktop. 🙄 |
| 15:55:02 | clyybber | lqdev[m]: Same |
| 15:55:11 | clyybber | disruptek: Living in tmux? |
| 15:55:21 | disruptek | tiling wm |
| 15:55:29 | clyybber | bspwm? |
| 15:55:33 | disruptek | sway |
| 15:55:38 | clyybber | Ah, wayland |
| 15:55:55 | clyybber | Does sway use wlroots? |
| 15:56:05 | disruptek | yeah. |
| 15:56:11 | disruptek | it's pretty great. |
| 15:58:56 | clyybber | I wonder if something like sxhkd is possible now with wayland or some wlroots protocol |
| 15:59:19 | disruptek | i think line noise is possible with pretty much any line. |
| 15:59:50 | clyybber | Last I checked the compositor itself had to handle keyboard input |
| 16:00:23 | clyybber | When wayland gets the modularity I'm used to from the X11 environment, Im gonna do the swtich |
| 16:00:26 | disruptek | looking at this, i don't see anything special here. i do this stuff now. |
| 16:01:19 | disruptek | what specifically do you want to be able to do? |
| 16:02:11 | clyybber | I want to have the compositor seperate from the window manager seperate from the input-handler |
| 16:02:36 | clyybber | Or at least I think its a good idea to have those seperate |
| 16:03:13 | clyybber | So far wayland compositors have to do all three of those things |
| 16:03:16 | clyybber | AFAIK |
| 16:03:56 | disruptek | i dunno. i've never been a floating wm person. been using tilers since ion, though i took a break from linux on the desktop for about a decade. |
| 16:04:15 | disruptek | i just can't stand the weight and interop of conventional desktops. |
| 16:04:34 | clyybber | Same, I only use tiling wms |
| 16:04:51 | disruptek | point is, i'm not bothered by the cozy relationship between input and my compositor. 😉 |
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| 16:05:24 | clyybber | Understandable, as long as it works, it works :) |
| 16:05:36 | disruptek | i like being able to summon my irc window and float it / focus it, with a single keypress. and then send it away with another. |
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| 16:05:58 | disruptek | i'm not desperate to keep those keys a secret from the compositor. |
| 16:06:56 | clyybber | Me neither, but with my current setup, I can control bspwm(the window manager) via shell commands |
| 16:07:02 | clyybber | Which are run by sxhkd |
| 16:07:27 | clyybber | And sxhkd can run any script, which makes it convinient for customization |
| 16:07:29 | disruptek | import json |
| 16:07:29 | disruptek | fh = open("j") |
| 16:07:29 | disruptek | for line in fh.readlines(): |
| 16:07:29 | disruptek | x = json.loads(line) |
| 16:07:29 | disruptek | if x["test_version"] == "nah": |
| 16:07:35 | disruptek | oops. |
| 16:07:53 | disruptek | i can't reproduce this slow json problem. did you look at it? |
| 16:08:09 | clyybber | Nope |
| 16:08:18 | disruptek | here's something that may appeal to you: https://github.com/disruptek/i3ipc |
| 16:08:58 | clyybber | Oh, thats really cool, thanks! |
| 16:09:18 | disruptek | pretty crude. just what i needed to do my stuff. |
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| 16:13:33 | clyybber | disruptek: Takes ~5 seconds for me |
| 16:14:45 | clyybber | ~4 with -d:danger |
| 16:14:49 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> I got my main programs in start menu custom folder/group, whilst everything i installed on the desktop(just so i know i actually have it xD) |
| 16:15:13 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> Also maps, Nim folders etc, stuff i can't just hide. |
| 16:15:42 | disruptek | not sure what's going on (if there's even a problem), but if the result of this thread is that we find a tweak that doubles or triples speed, even for a rare breed of env, that seems pretty worthwhile. |
| 16:17:41 | disruptek | kiloneie: i don't think anyone really cares too much what icons you have on your desktop. |
| 16:18:36 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> Was just explaining what solution i was looking for, but yeah, sorry about that. |
| 16:18:48 | disruptek | no, i mean, i wouldn't sweat it too much. :-) |
| 16:19:22 | disruptek | you could throw up some art in a window behind what you're working on, right? |
| 16:19:28 | disruptek | just to hide your porn folders? |
| 16:20:15 | clyybber | maybe you can use rainmeter to hide it |
| 16:20:29 | clyybber | disruptek: You mispelled "homework" |
| 16:20:47 | * | disruptek 🤣 |
| 16:21:27 | disruptek | ah the days of running screensavers on the root window. |
| 16:22:16 | clyybber | ah the days of modularity |
| 16:23:12 | clyybber | I have a script somewhere that streams NASA footage to my root window |
| 16:23:56 | disruptek | i had 40 local traffic cameras, back when i used to drive a towtruck. |
| 16:24:07 | clyybber | need to patch it to use xwinwrap, and then it will work with compton too |
| 16:24:43 | clyybber | disruptek: Huh, for what? |
| 16:24:54 | clyybber | To watch out for wrongly parked vehicles? |
| 16:25:06 | disruptek | traffic accidents. |
| 16:25:22 | disruptek | but, i didn't really drive a towtruck. i just liked watching people who had to commute in snow. |
| 16:25:29 | clyybber | Lol |
| 16:26:36 | disruptek | in case you hadn't gathered, i'm a bit of a prick. |
| 16:27:46 | disruptek | what i'm missing in wayland: client surface scaling and cropping. |
| 16:28:27 | disruptek | it's just not implemented yet, afaict. |
| 16:29:01 | disruptek | as araq says, features start off in the unfortunate state of `unimplemented`. such a great line. 😝 |
| 16:30:15 | clyybber | heh |
| 16:33:06 | lqdev[m] | so true |
| 16:34:35 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> oO you guys are weird. |
| 16:36:08 | clyybber | Oo |
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| 16:40:32 | clyybber | I really need to write a branch debug macro |
| 16:40:51 | clyybber | s/branch/control flow |
| 16:40:51 | dom96 | I don't suppose there is any particular reason why the default order for sorting an OrderedTable is Ascending whereas for CountTable it's Descending? https://nim-lang.org/docs/tables.html#sort%2COrderedTable%5BA%2CB%5D%2Cproc%28%2C%29 https://nim-lang.org/docs/tables.html#sort%2CCountTable%5BA%5D |
| 16:41:06 | FromDiscord_ | <Kiloneie> I am just trying to make in more profesional, a clean desktop where i will be installing VS Code and Nim, so users can follow, that's why i asked if you guys know a better solution to hide it, not to hide porn xD... |
| 16:41:36 | disruptek | dom96: the reason is that the argument is optional and it was added recently, so i had to leave the default as it existed previously. |
| 16:41:55 | disruptek | kiloneie: there's nothing wrong with porn. |
| 16:43:09 | dom96 | also, I don't suppose there is a way to find out what position a key is in after sorting a count table, is there? |
| 16:43:17 | disruptek | right. |
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| 16:59:35 | FromGitter | <mratsim> we need a SortedTable |
| 16:59:47 | clyybber | !eval echo "Hello there, have I changed?" |
| 16:59:50 | NimBot | Hello there, have I changed? |
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| 17:28:08 | FromGitter | <alehander42> clybber what do you mean |
| 17:28:21 | FromGitter | <alehander42> by control flow debug |
| 17:28:29 | FromGitter | <alehander42> ah, the internal cf code ok |
| 17:29:43 | disruptek | the uri module defines Url as a distinct string but doesn't seem to accept it for any public interface which otherwise accepts a URI/URL. |
| 17:31:48 | dom96 | yeah, that type should be removed |
| 17:32:43 | clyybber | alehander42: Nope, I actually meant a macro that inserts echo "took this branch: condition" after if branches |
| 17:32:56 | clyybber | Or something like that, to make debugging easier |
| 17:33:03 | FromGitter | <alehander42> ok, this is hmm |
| 17:33:08 | FromGitter | <alehander42> where would you put the call |
| 17:33:23 | clyybber | Into the if branch |
| 17:33:25 | FromGitter | <alehander42> as a pragma for the function? |
| 17:33:36 | FromGitter | <alehander42> i see |
| 17:34:01 | clyybber | alehander42: The macro invocation I would put before the body I want to analyse |
| 17:34:07 | FromGitter | <alehander42> but then you need many ⏎ if condition: ⏎ debugCond() ⏎ elif condition: ⏎ debugCond() [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5d73ea0f9dd2a1391f540e03] |
| 17:34:08 | FromGitter | <alehander42> ? |
| 17:34:13 | FromGitter | <alehander42> ah so |
| 17:34:19 | FromGitter | <alehander42> debugFlow: ⏎ if .. |
| 17:34:21 | FromGitter | <alehander42> ? |
| 17:34:23 | clyybber | Yeah |
| 17:34:33 | FromGitter | <alehander42> yeah, sounds reasonable |
| 17:34:38 | clyybber | And since we indent with two spaces it can be easily injected adhoc |
| 17:34:47 | clyybber | with one space |
| 17:34:48 | FromGitter | <alehander42> i've done something similar but based on gdb |
| 17:34:55 | FromGitter | <alehander42> so running in a different way |
| 17:35:00 | clyybber | alehander42: Oh cool, where is it? |
| 17:35:08 | FromGitter | <alehander42> well, it's closed source, sorry :( |
| 17:35:20 | FromGitter | <alehander42> a part of not released something |
| 17:35:25 | clyybber | Ah, fine |
| 17:35:26 | FromGitter | <alehander42> but such a macro shoudl be simple |
| 17:35:32 | clyybber | Yeah |
| 17:35:38 | FromGitter | <alehander42> more interesting is dealing with loops |
| 17:36:27 | FromGitter | <alehander42> e.g. rendering something like ⏎ ⏎ for i in collection: ⏎ ⏎ #looped: 0 , i = "a" in collection ... [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5d73ea9b9df68757fa39b2f7] |
| 17:36:28 | clyybber | Indeed, one feature I could imagine is counting and printing the amount of iterations |
| 17:36:33 | FromGitter | <alehander42> etc |
| 17:37:29 | FromGitter | <alehander42> love it |
| 17:37:37 | FromGitter | <alehander42> well, i'd love to see such a macro |
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| 18:03:49 | clyybber | zah: Am I right in the assumption that `Refinement concepts` aren't implemented yet? |
| 18:04:56 | FromGitter | <Clyybber> @zah |
| 18:05:27 | disruptek | leorize[m]: ping |
| 18:06:30 | disruptek | leorize[m]: seem to be running out of open file descriptors; have you seen this lately? |
| 18:13:43 | FromGitter | <zah> @Clyybber, yes, not implemented yet |
| 18:19:59 | clyybber | @zah Ah ok, I was trying to fix https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/6390 but didn't find the implementation :D |
| 18:20:20 | clyybber | What do refinement concepts provide over simple `x is SomeConcept` ? |
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| 18:23:36 | clyybber | Ah, sorry rephrasing: WDYT about making the `of Concept` syntax simply inject `x is Concept` into the body? |
| 18:24:07 | clyybber | And removing the scope inclusion, as I think it's a bit confusing |
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| 18:31:18 | leorize | disruptek: that's possible? |
| 18:31:52 | disruptek | is your master branch still old? |
| 18:32:09 | leorize | yea, master is untouched until I deem refactoring stable enough |
| 18:32:21 | disruptek | okie, i'll see if i can reproduce there. |
| 18:33:49 | clyybber | disruptek: What does your limits.conf say? |
| 18:34:06 | clyybber | In some distros the default is ridiculously low |
| 18:34:07 | disruptek | it was at 1024. |
| 18:35:11 | disruptek | wow, federico's problem is weird, but in a good way. looks like there might be a bug worth fixing. |
| 18:36:34 | leorize | well the plugin does spawn a decent amount of fd when communicating with nimsuggest |
| 18:36:39 | leorize | but those are shortlived |
| 18:36:48 | leorize | definitely can't reach 1024 |
| 18:37:57 | disruptek | hmm, i don't think i've changed anything else in my editor lately. could be a newer nimsuggest issue. |
| 18:41:01 | leorize | the only significant change is that I no longer call 'chanclose' on the end of a request |
| 18:41:07 | leorize | don't know if this could be the culprit |
| 18:42:00 | disruptek | i have another issue with periodic freezes where my inputs just queue for a few seconds. i guess these could be related. |
| 18:43:25 | leorize | hmm, that's interesting |
| 18:44:07 | disruptek | i think that happens on master, too, though. |
| 18:46:02 | leorize | is your `/tmp` mounted with tmpfs? |
| 18:46:18 | disruptek | yeah. |
| 18:47:39 | leorize | then I have no idea what could be the bottleneck :/ |
| 18:48:26 | disruptek | no biggie, i'll see if master helps and report back. 😉 |
| 18:48:36 | leorize | sure :) |
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| 20:20:26 | disruptek | aws sigv4 request signing: https://github.com/disruptek/sigv4 |
| 20:23:25 | FromGitter | <awr1> https://github.com/disruptek/sigv4/blob/master/sigv4.nim#L141 |
| 20:23:47 | FromGitter | <awr1> you know i don't think i've ever seen emojis supported in code except as like, a proof of concept, like "our terminal supports emojis now!" |
| 20:24:50 | Calinou | Yarn's command line uses emoji :P |
| 20:24:53 | disruptek | i guess when you have a terminal emulator that lets you easily search/insert them, they become more common. 😉 |
| 20:25:02 | Calinou | (only on supported platforms, IIRC they aren't displayed on Windows by default) |
| 20:26:21 | FromGitter | <awr1> i think the new terminal for windows has emojis |
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| 20:27:06 | FromGitter | <awr1> `sortedByIt()`needs an order argument |
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| 20:31:23 | disruptek | yeah, when it works i will robustify it. |
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| 23:14:04 | FromGitter | <awr1> god i wish i had a SLI or crossfire system so i could know whether or not i'm managing device groups in vulkan correctly |
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| 23:44:33 | skrylar[m] | heh. i see some of the errors are still silly. working on some gui code again for nim and this line `proc copy*(from, too: var Tableau) = |
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