<< 07-10-2016 >>
00:11:02PMunchHmm, apparently the <this> thing works if I have anything that is a valid token in nim after it.. I'm guessing that is because < is less than and > is more than..
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01:35:23PMunchUhm, why does the findChild template in macros shadow the result varable?
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07:55:17FromGitter<BontaVlad> how can I convert this from python to nim `seq[-1:] --> last element`
07:55:42FromGitter<BontaVlad> or `seq[-2:] --> last 2 elements`
07:59:35euantor@BontaVlad: https://glot.io/snippets/ej4xn2ofg9
07:59:50euantorBasically, using `^X` to start/end from the end
07:59:55euantorhttp://nim-lang.org/docs/tut1.html#advanced-types-slices
08:04:51flyxgirvo, libman: well I built NimYAML for serialization, which works quite good except for some special cases currently.
08:06:26FromGitter<BontaVlad> great ty @euantorano
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08:43:55FromGitter<BontaVlad> in templates `expr` is deprecated, with what should I replace it?
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08:45:58FromGitter<Araq> @BontaVlad depends, most of the time 'untyped'
08:47:13FromGitter<BontaVlad> Should I make a issue or a PR to make the error message better illustrate the alternatives?
08:47:20FromGitter<BontaVlad> ps: Ty @Araq
08:47:45FromGitter<Araq> sure if you can do it. improving deprecation messages is hard
08:47:45euantorA lot of the docs and stdlib need updating to not use `expr`
08:48:02euantorBut that's a job that would take a while
08:48:12FromGitter<Araq> a lot from the docs and stdlib is already updated though
08:48:22FromGitter<Araq> still more left, yes
08:49:02euantorAraq: Yep, a simple search on GitHub finds ~270 results: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=expr
08:50:10FromGitter<Araq> most of which are tests though
08:50:17euantorTrue
08:50:37FromGitter<Araq> you can use nimgrep to do the substitutions
08:50:39euantorThe tutorial (tut2) is the main place that still uses expr when talking about templates
08:51:04FromGitter<Araq> ah damn, I thought I updated it everywhere in the official docs :P
08:51:31euantorYeah, that's the one most likely to cause confusion for new users I would think
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08:59:54FromGitter<recoilme> Hi.Sorry for stupid question.. I want to build shared lib from (.so file) for android platform, but dont understand from which point to start. I look at cross_calculator code example but it seems not work... I try start from command like this: nim c --app:lib --cc:gcc --noMain --header --os:linux --cpu:arm hi.nim but its try found arm-linux-gcc (thats this?) I want duild c source for arm platform and then - make shared lib via android.mk
08:59:54FromGitter... Please, help(
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09:12:05FromGitter<endragor> @recoilme try `-c` option - that will make Nim only generate C sources, without trying to compile them.
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09:17:34FromGitter<Araq> @recoilme seems like you need to install a GCC to ARM cross compiler
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09:21:53FromGitter<recoilme> thank you for advance! is gcc to arm some alternative to android ndk?
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09:39:19FromGitter<Araq> I don't know what the NDK contains
09:40:16ldleworknative dev kit
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09:47:58Araq_ldlework: does it include an ARM C compiler?
09:48:07ldleworkno idea
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09:49:35FromGitter<recoilme> @Araq i install gcc2arm and if i understand right i must compile with arm-none-eabi-gcc? So i try with this command: nim c --app:lib --cc:gcc --noMain --header --os:none-eabi --cpu:arm hi.nim but give error unknown os none-eabi
09:51:20flyxrecoilme: just set arm.linux.gcc.exe = "arm-non-eabi-gcc" in your config?
09:52:00FromGitter<recoilme> wow! i will try thank you
09:52:00Araq_recoilme: please look into 'nake' and how it does it, it has support for Android apps and knows more about it than me
09:52:05flyxthere's anexample here: http://nim-lang.org/docs/nimc.html#cross-compilation
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09:54:58flyxrecoilme: this may help: https://github.com/yglukhov/nim-sdl-template/blob/master/nakefile.nim#L154
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10:46:25FromGitter<coffeepots> anyone who uses nim on linux, what are some good gui editors?
10:46:54flyxcoffeepots: you mean, editors for designing a GUI, or code editors having a GUI?
10:47:00flyxfor the latter, VS Code
10:47:04flyx(surprisingly)
10:47:14FromGitter<coffeepots> VS code runs on linux? :)
10:47:34flyxsure
10:47:34*flyx uses it on OSX and Linux
10:48:17flyxit has nimsuggest integration
10:48:17FromGitter<coffeepots> excellent! Well, that's fantastic as that's what I used on windows :)
10:48:46FromGitter<coffeepots> nim was easy to set up on linux too so looks like not much disruption for me :)
10:49:00FromGitter<coffeepots> cheers flyx :)
10:51:17PMunchAnyone here who have used the pegs module? I'm having some trouble with it. I've got a peg"(('-'{[a-zA-Z]})\s+('--'{[a-zA-Z][a-zA-Z_\-]+}) / ('--'{[a-zA-Z][a-zA-Z_\-]+}) / ('-'{[a-zA-Z]}))$" which matches terminal arguments like "-h --help" or "--version" or "-v" but I'm struggling to actually get the words matched out..
10:52:09PMunchIf I simply do a "-h" =~ peg then I get a magic variable matches where I can get them but I can't get the length..
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10:58:15cheatfateAraq_, unsigned is broken as hell, because of lazy contributors :)
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10:59:34cheatfateits not possible to make `shl` of `uint32` by literal or event by `uint8`...
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11:03:57PMunchHmm, why can't I define a peg in a macro?
11:05:36PMunchI wanted to search the value of a StrLit in my macro but by putting a let pegName = peg"<something>" I get a attempt to access a nil address from the position..
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11:14:02PMunchI don't get this.. Why can't PEGs be used in a macro?
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11:16:01PMunchAh, so pegs can't be evaluated at compile-time?
11:28:21Araq_PMunch: unfortunately pegs do not yet work at compile-time
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11:28:35Araq_and so neither in a macro. known bug (even listed in my toto)
11:31:19PMunchYeah I figured. That's a shame, would love to use it for this
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12:18:42arnetheduckhey Araq_, saw the revert, oops.. I
12:18:52arnetheduck'll furnish a new one, more specific
12:18:57arnetheduckyes?
12:20:26arnetheduckany luck with ideas for the pthread patch?
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12:33:59cheatfatearnetheduck, maybe its better to find another way?
12:34:53cheatfateor you will check every constant you need for every platform/architecture pair?
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12:47:27Araq_arnetheduck: no worries but I think I'll finally come up with a decent autoconf like feature
12:47:40Araq_in order to prevent further complications
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13:09:34arnetheduckcheatfate, I'm open to ideas.. a structured approach that would be the same for every c header would be nice but lacking that..
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13:10:57arnetheduckone way is a dedicated libc wrapper library that does nothing else and takes a systematic approach to dealing with different os's, falling back on c headers only when the platform is not supported
13:11:35arnetheduckas is, it's hard to decipher even which parts of system.nim actually get used in the jungle of different when's
13:13:09Araq_arnetheduck: you can always introduce an unknown identifier to see if it's triggered :P
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13:13:58arnetheduckI rely on the build bots ;) though the turnaround time is not great
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13:16:11FromGitter<recoilme> arnetheduck - oh, bots! i finish bot for telegram on nim recently (nsfw, channel gonewild)
13:16:41GaveUpstupid question but assuming you're talking #4853 ... was the point just to reduce dependencies on libc or...? Not being a compiler guy I was confused by the reasoning
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13:19:06arnetheduckGaveUp, it's to reduce dependency on libc headers (while still using implementation) so that nlvm (native nim compiler without c) can compile things...
13:22:40GaveUpk ... that was my gut ... stupid question #2, then ... perhaps split the defines out to an arch-specific files so attention is called to them... I suppose either way you take on having to explicitely support the arch vs relying on the libc headers but with it split out it would probably make it easier to add support for X vs a grep for when(defined)?
13:24:53cheatfatearnetheduck, is it possible for your nlvm get list of this `var const variables`?
13:26:07arnetheduckgrep can get a list of them: grep header|nodecl should catch most
13:26:31arnetheduckoh, and importc too
13:28:07GaveUpI can't say I've investigated it much, to be fair... just having flashbacks to trying to get rust to compile/run on mipsel. Longstory short that's what drove me to nim
13:28:56cheatfatearnetheduck, i dont know how your project works, but looks like it generates llvm bytecode which used to generate binary, am i right?
13:35:08UNIcodeXAnyone seen this IoT board? https://www.tessel.io/ It run rust and JavaScript, so that means, that it can also run Nim, since there's the JS cross compiler
13:36:43Araq_* Programmable in JavaScript
13:36:43Araq_* Planned support for Rust and other languages
13:37:04Araq_better to wait for native code support I guess, but surely you can use the JS backend too
13:37:10Araq_and start hacking right away
13:38:56UNIcodeXpretty cool stuff
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13:42:27FromGitter<BontaVlad> priced at 44$ is more expensive then a rasb3 or a beagle bone black. Both run linux(rust, nodejs, nim)
13:42:44FromGitter<coffeepots> There's also this http://www.espruino.com/
13:43:06FromGitter<coffeepots> just for JS
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13:44:11FromGitter<BontaVlad> also esp8266(I have a lot of them and they are great) especially wemos d1 mini https://www.google.ro/search?q=wemos+d1+mini&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjP8OHP6cjPAhXBuxQKHQ7eANAQ_AUICCgB&biw=1097&bih=559#imgrc=laHoldGRm5E2NM%3A
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13:45:01FromGitter<BontaVlad> I think tessel could win at the power consumption subject.
13:47:21UNIcodeXwow. thanks!
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13:50:51FromGitter<BontaVlad> Also for doing embedded prog I like using this utility: http://platformio.org/ maybe you will find it useful
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13:56:10UNIcodeXlooks full featured
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14:06:58enthus1astnoobish question: how much effort would it be to port nim to one of these cpus? What needs to be done to port something like nim?
14:07:59enthus1astis it more like: change a few imports here and there or more like "big change in foo and bar and baz"?
14:08:30Araq_enthus1ast: compiler/platform.nim and that's pretty much it
14:09:01Araq_depends on the CPU though, but most new CPUs are boring designs requiring no changes to the GC's stack walking code
14:10:08Araq_niminst likely needs also some updates so that platform detection works for the generated shell scripts
14:15:56enthus1astAraq_ ahh i see. Even for a noob like me, nim internals are alway a good read.
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14:35:03arnetheduckcheatfate, yeah, underneath that's what it does.. nowadays it passes that to the assembler directly so you'll normally not see the bytecode
14:36:30cheatfatearnetheduck, so maybe for future compatibility you need some kind of autoconf stage? which will gather all nim's `var consts` prepare some kind of C file which dumps exact values of this consts and you can replace it?
14:38:40derlafffenthus1ast: are you sure to use nim here? it's runtime seems pretty heavy to me; hello world weights 20K and simple prog with a couple of external libs is 200K
14:39:27derlafffI write stuff for mips router and it's hardly enough
14:40:54FromGitter<Araq> @derlaff you can get the overhead down to C's IME
14:41:23derlafffI tried to disable all of that
14:41:37FromGitter<Araq> external libs are always an issue on such devices, you cannot use eg. glib either
14:41:52arnetheduckGaveUp, splitting is one way to approach it indeed - it's a fairly clean approach which concentrates all the the mess in one place, and with one kind of mess only.. it can also fallback on c headers for when no native port is available
14:41:56derlafffdebug build of prog which takes 200K weights 1,2M
14:42:11derlaffffortunately I have uclibc there
14:42:53arnetheduckderlafff, a lot of it is the gc.. you can try disabling it with gc:none and -d:useMalloc, and you'll get sizes closer to c
14:43:09FromGitter<Araq> and also --os:standalone
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14:43:40FromGitter<Araq> and somebody should fix the codegen to not empty init procs :-)
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14:43:48FromGitter<Araq> *to not generate
14:43:51derlafffnah, I want GC (:
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14:43:58derlafffI think that's handled by -flto anyway
14:44:14FromGitter<Araq> lto can remove empty C functions?
14:44:19FromGitter<Araq> possible yeah.
14:44:25derlafffit can remove non-used functions
14:44:34FromGitter<Araq> they are used, but empty
14:44:41derlafffhmm
14:45:10derlafffanyway, that's my buildscript: https://github.com/derlaft/fdi/blob/master/build.sh
14:45:18derlafff-flto really saves much of binary size
14:45:30arnetheduckcheatfate, yeah, sort of.. that could work, but it would be a lot easier if the c interfacing bits were concentrated to one wrapper lib
14:45:45arnetheduckand at that point, you could sort of use c2nim
14:46:18arnetheduck(except that c2nim chokes on most headers, illustrating the difficulty of getting an automated solution right)
14:47:49GaveUparnetheduck: yeah ... it's a mess no matter what really, but at least it's an obvious mess and, in theory, it's easier to see what's needed to explicitely support a new port
14:48:09enthus1astderlafff, was just curios how one would port nim, no plans to use it on IoT hardware so far.
14:48:12cheatfatearnetheduck, i dont think its a good way to wrap all constants in one place, just because logical semantic of this constants will be lost...
14:48:18cheatfatebbl
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14:51:39arnetheduckcheatfate, I think it's a rather simple solution.. libc gets a wrapper for all the functions it has, and whatever nim files use it should export symbols on their own which fit the semantic
14:52:37arnetheduck(functions and constants)
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14:57:25Araq_I don't know why we cannot simply do var ECRAP {.importc, detect.}: cint and let the compiler detect ECRAP's value and cache this result
14:57:33Araq_like autoconf does
15:01:44arnetheduckI thought everyone hates autoconf and wants to get away from that model as much as possible ;)
15:02:02arnetheduckalso, you need a c compiler and a full complement of -devel packages available
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15:03:41arnetheduckand you
15:04:37arnetheduckstill need to get the types and everything else about the abi right
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15:07:37Araq_autoconf sucks because it's built on top of M4 an archaic preprocessor
15:07:44Araq_not because its concept sucks
15:08:07Araq_but its concept surely is also a result of this non-standard that is Posix.
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15:10:22PMunchAraq_, you here? I was just wondering if any of the regex modules work with macros since pegs doesn't..
15:12:31PMunchI wanted to stay away from it because of the license but since pegs doesn't work I need something else..
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15:23:05Araq_PMunch: try the scanf module, scanp macro
15:23:42Araq_or use pegs via staticExec :-)
15:23:48Araq_requires some creativity
15:25:20PMunchstaticExec?
15:25:56arnetheduckbbl
15:26:00PMunchHmm, the scanf/scanp looks promising though
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15:28:44Araq_well I learned a bit since pegs :P
15:28:58Araq_scanp is superior.
15:38:13UNIcodeXI did a comparison of a simple "hello world" between Nim, Rust, and Python, when compiled. If anyone is interested ( https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_x6RABG6pMhX2dpaFc3VkUxUEk/view?usp=sharing )
15:40:20FromGitter<recoilme> oh my, i build so lib for android after day of research
15:40:57FromGitter<recoilme> i think need to write some more fresh example about it
15:41:47FromGitter<Araq> @recoilme does it work? :-)
15:48:36FromGitter<recoilme> didnt test, lol)
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15:58:27joshbaptiste_UNIcodeX: also interesting... https://hookrace.net/blog/nim-binary-size/
15:59:40UNIcodeXjoshbaptiste_, it says that the 150 byte binary is 1 byte smaller than Rust. clearly i'm not optimizing enough in my test with Rust.
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16:15:07UNIcodeXjoshbaptiste_, good read. wow that's impressive
16:15:25UNIcodeXnot that you'd need to optimize that small under normal circumstances, but still cool as an exercise.
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16:35:49UNIcodeXwhen i try to use "nim --os:standalone --d:release --opt:size c hello" as in the example, with a panicoverride.nim file, i get "Error: undeclared identifier: 'stdout'"
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16:55:55elroodUNIcodeX, joshbaptiste_: some would argue that anything substantially bigger than 60 bytes for a helloWorld-style binary is bloatware ;) https://github.com/mydzor/tinyelf-arm http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.html
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17:41:42PMunchHmm, the scanp macro in strscans has no useful explanation in the docs..
17:42:10PMunchIt just says: "See top level documentation of his module of how scanp works." but nowhere else is scanp mentioned..
17:43:26Araq_sorry, yeah, look at the example at the bottom of the file
17:44:15PMunchOh, at the bottom of the source file :P
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18:13:13PMunchHmm, I honestly can't tell how to use scanp :P
18:13:34PMunchFor example, what does *(* mean?
18:13:43PMunchor ~'U'
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18:40:46UNIcodeXfixed the undeclared identifier error by adding "--gc:stack" to the options.
18:40:56UNIcodeXgot an executable of just of 9K
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19:57:29FromGitter<Araq> @PMunch: does scanf not work for you?
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19:58:17PMunchI've got something working now with scanf. I was struggling with trying to use scanp, mostly just to see what the difference was
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20:40:02libmanKILL IT WITH FIRE!!!
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