<< 26-04-2018 >>
00:00:01skrylari guess i'll just table this for the moment
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00:03:54skrylarwill probably just have to have it assume all things are indexed except a couple obvious exceptions
00:05:39skrylarflat buffers have some weird crap where some data is "inline" which just means its jammed up next to the vtable and then other data that is "somewhere" in the stream
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00:42:29skrylarbut expression 'string' is of type: string
00:42:33skrylar:hmm:
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00:50:04skrylarso this works proc add* [X:Primitive](self: var Vtable; T: typedesc[X]) =
00:50:21skrylarbut when you add a specialization for string, it just complains that strings aren't strings
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01:49:38skrylarzacharycarter: meh. got it working, but its ugly
01:49:58skrylarinstead of consulting a neat, user providable specialization of a generic, it just checks the type name on a hash table at compile time for a few primitives
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02:06:25skrylarthat just leaves the recursive bits to actually shove objects in to bits
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02:12:46FromGitter<ephja> bits are nice
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03:18:24skrylari see protobuf stuff already in nimble. neat. wonder how well they work
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06:27:50FromGitter<matrixbot> `ehmry` excellent, I'm not a fan of protobufs but that is good news
06:36:53FromGitter<honewatson> is lexbase unlikely to work at compile time?
06:38:18insomniac_lemonHas there been any discussion on creating a beginner-to-programming guide yet? Even a general outline of the order that big concepts should be learned in (one that someone could USE to make a guide) may be useful for someone to get started.
06:40:10FromGitter<survivorm> Is there a common way to use something similar to compile-time warning in runtime?
06:40:13insomniac_lemonTaking it a step further would be listing any ways that nim differs in its implementation of said concepts/technologies. That'd then just leave the footwork of finding good explanations/tutorials.
06:43:05FromGitter<narimiran> > Has there been any discussion on creating a beginner-to-programming guide yet? ⏎ ⏎ insomniac_lemon: i'm working on it
06:43:38FromDiscord<claude> some guy on reddit said they were making something
06:43:53FromGitter<narimiran> i'm that guy from reddit ;)
06:43:56FromDiscord<claude> oh
06:44:22FromGitter<narimiran> it is harder than i thought it would be, and it is going much slower than i expected/wanted
06:44:40insomniac_lemonnarimiran yeah It's me again some other guy on Reddit who has asked. You said you weren't doing a full overview sort of thing, remember?
06:45:56insomniac_lemonAlthough I guess I didn't mention the idea as a general outline which would be easier.
06:46:29FromGitter<narimiran> what i had in mind is: basic datatypes, control flow, loops, procedures
06:46:45FromGitter<narimiran> this should be enough to start and to dive deeper on your own
06:47:06FromGitter<narimiran> it is not meant to be "one tutorial to rule them all"
06:47:43insomniac_lemonIt'd still be best to have an outline, even if it was literally a bulleted list that could be scribbled on a bar napkin.
06:50:02FromGitter<alehander42> yeah, the goto ~= go was very interesting viewpoint
06:54:36insomniac_lemonnarimiran I guess one way of putting it is that I'm suggesting for a trail of breadcrumbs to something that should give people a foothold of knowledge, rather than giving someone a meal and hoping they know where to look for more
06:57:05insomniac_lemonMaybe dom96 start the outline. That is unless the ordering of concepts would differ by individual/goal, especially with varying degrees of ability to think like a true beginner.
07:03:15insomniac_lemonWell, granularity might be an issue. Learning in an order that doesn't require you know 5 other things that require knowing other things etc. I get that might be a guarantee, but hopefully getting past that isn't too hard.
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07:28:50Araqnarimiran: why are you different from tut1?
07:28:55Araqlol
07:29:08Araqnarimiran: what do you do differently from tut1?
07:36:33FromGitter<narimiran> Araq: my aim is to be more beginner-friendly and to go into a bit more detail - aimed at people with no or minimal previous programming experience
07:40:28insomniac_lemonAraq yeah, that's something I've said. I feel like anyone setting out to make a single "beginner tutorial" is just making the same sort of tutorial nim has a few of. Which doesn't help beginners-to-programming know where to start.
07:40:53insomniac_lemonIt's like teaching them how to cook by showing them how to make salad.
07:42:12FromGitter<narimiran> insomniac_lemon: based on your repeated comments here and on reddit - i've got the feeling that whatever is or will be done - you will not be satisfied
07:45:36insomniac_lemonnarimiran, maybe. But then again some think nim's existing tutorials are good (even the one focused on Brainfuck). So everyone's idea of beginning is different.
07:45:42insomniac_lemonAt least an outline is much less writing, likely even compared to your tutorial.
07:49:54ArrrrIt is good to experiment
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07:54:55Araqnarimiran: your audience is "beginners-to-programming". that's good.
07:56:10AraqI would focus on a "Nim with X" tutorial where X would SDL2 or a comparable library, preferably an idiomatic wrapper
07:56:33Araqbeginners often want to get into programming because they want to program games.
07:57:10insomniac_lemonAraq the nim bindings for Godot might be another option, possibly better.
07:57:25AraqGodot is too messy to setup.
07:57:34insomniac_lemonThat's what I want to get into.
07:57:40Araqyou lose your users at the installation instructions.
07:57:53AraqGodot is far too heavy for real beginners.
07:58:42insomniac_lemonDidn't seem messy to me, although I just did a command. Not sure how it is on Windows.
07:59:32FromGitter<narimiran> Araq: i have no experience with games (so i can't make that tutorial), but i agree that such a tutorial (or series of "making X with Nim) might be the way to go!
07:59:49insomniac_lemonI mean Godot offers features making it more convienent than spinning your own engine.
08:00:16Araqpacman install godot && pacman install nim && pacman install nimble && nimble install godot # many things can wrong here :P
08:00:47Araq"spinning your own engine", sure, but beginners do not write game engines
08:01:18FromGitter<narimiran> the problem with my "beginners-to-programming" tutorial is - i'm not sure how basic should i go, and that's why it takes me so long to finish/publish what i have written so far....
08:02:33Araqnarimiran: well come up with an X :-)
08:03:00insomniac_lemonAraq I mean you're likely not gonna get much with SDL2. So there'd likely be a lot of stuff you'd be adding yourself. Even when using a more robust framework. It'd be like an OpenGL tutorial.
08:03:20FromGitter<narimiran> "doing linear algebra with nim" doesn't sound like an interesting topic to the most people :D :D
08:03:45Araqyep.
08:03:50insomniac_lemonnarimiran, not sure if I've mentioned it but I've programmed before but only high-level. Not much technical, but I know about loops and a bit about data types. I just don't know where to start on the technical side.
08:04:02insomniac_lemonWith Nim that is.
08:04:52FromGitter<narimiran> you start with the official tut1, and you translate to nim whatever have you written before in that high-level language
08:05:09Araqinsomniac_lemon: you'd be surprised how effective you can be without an engine.
08:05:18Araqespecially for teaching.
08:05:38Araqan engine comes with its own abstractions that have to be learned
08:06:26FromGitter<survivorm> @narimiran Maybe it's my point of view, but i'd start with simple localhost web server, some in-memory db mapped to disk (preferably, easily installed) and something like own blog with login
08:06:43FromGitter<survivorm> Or even chat-like platform
08:07:08FromGitter<survivorm> I think it might be interesting topic for the beginners
08:07:30FromGitter<narimiran> @survivorm do it ;)
08:07:35insomniac_lemonnarimiran, I mean even higher level (or just generally worse) than Python. Really it was mostly tinkering and stuff I don't have access to anymore. Tut1 or really any existing nim tutorial does not help me with the sheer amount of research I'd need to do to know even the basics.
08:07:36FromGitter<survivorm> And also touching many different sub-systems
08:08:15PMunchHmm, is the playground still down?
08:08:58FromGitter<survivorm> @narimiran no, surely i won't have the drive to do that much. I can only do simple things or things related to what i'm doing for myself, i'm an egoist :P
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08:09:43FromGitter<narimiran> simple things are exactly what we're looking for ;)
08:10:10Araq"using Nim to write a Minecraft extension" -- instant success right here.
08:10:16Araq:-)
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08:10:47Araqassuming Minecraft extensions are a thing...
08:11:44PMunchWell, there are mods
08:11:45FromGitter<narimiran> my (other) plan is to write a blogpost how i sped-up my python calculations by using nim. not aimed at beginners, just something that could be "sold" to python developers in the similar situations....
08:11:48PMunchBut they are written in Java..
08:12:42Araq"use Nim to write an SC2 AI that plays in your style so that you can do finally do something else in your spare time..."
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08:13:22Araq"use Nim to write an IRC bot so that you can finally do something productive in your spare time..."
08:13:27insomniac_lemonAraq does an outline seem like something you could do? Or is there really no good starting point because all of the concepts are interwoven?
08:14:16FromGitter<narimiran> insomniac_lemon: https://nim-lang.org/docs/tut1.html - look at the left column - isn't that an outline?
08:16:17insomniac_lemonnarimiran No. As I've said that's basic pieces/syntax stuff, not concepts. Not assembling a program, no proper multithreading, not GC or other technologies etc.
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08:16:57PMunchinsomniac_lemon, I always check https://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/nim/ when I want to get a quick overview of a language
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08:17:20PMunchThe code shows off some nice examples of things, while the comments typically explain what's going on
08:18:12insomniac_lemonSame exact issue there, PMunch. It's assuming you're coming over from another language (like Python) where you had high understanding.
08:19:21PMunchOf course
08:19:45PMunchBut if you used that as an outline, taking your time to explain in much greater detail what's going on
08:20:25PMunchWriting beginner programming classes are hard though
08:20:53Araqhttp://abz.inf.ethz.ch/wp-content/uploads/unterrichtsmaterialien/primarschulen/logo_heft_en.pdf translate this to Nim
08:20:54PMunchI used to teach a beginner C course for people who had never programmed before at University
08:21:16PMunchYou just sorta forget that all the things you take for granted are completely new and foreign to them..
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08:22:46FromGitter<narimiran> PMunch: well said! btw, are you still interested in "beta-testing" this tutorial of mine? (once i get it to some semi-done state)
08:23:45Araqand write in Nim's variant of RST with its awesome :test: feature
08:24:27insomniac_lemonPMunch, my point was the problem wasn't the linked tutorial being too difficult, but that it doesn't give a good enough starting point to find and understand more advanced concepts.
08:25:15PMunchnarimiran, yeah, I'm looking forward to see what you've got
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08:25:34FromGitter<narimiran> insomniac_lemon: sometimes (often-times) there won't be a guiding hand, and you need to explore the world on your own
08:25:48PMunchinsomniac_lemon, well it's intended for beginners
08:26:03PMunchSo just teaching them if, when, while, for, and case is already a lot
08:26:32PMunchOh, and procs
08:30:46insomniac_lemonMy point is this style of tutorial leaves true beginners in the dark. The documentation is the same way. There is no info on what you need to know, and even if you scrounge it from other languages, it may not apply 1:1 to nim.
08:31:39PMunchinsomniac_lemon, yes again. You asked for an outline, that page could easily be used as an outline.
08:34:08insomniac_lemonPMunch, No... it doesn't. Syntax/basic pieces isn't an outline of programming concepts/technologies.
08:34:51FromGitter<narimiran> insomniac_lemon: can you show us an example of the things you want to see?
08:34:52PMunchIt's an outline of progression. If you actually wrote what each piece was doing, how and why it was working, while tying it into a bigger picture it would work just fine.
08:38:07FromGitter<narimiran> Araq: that logo tutorial is quite nice for beginners! does nim have something like python's turtle module?
08:38:19Araqno, it needs it :-)
08:39:09FromGitter<narimiran> oh, another thing i would like to do, but a day has only 24 hours....
08:39:23Araqyou can probably use terminal.nim to "draw" some Unicode Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle
08:39:39AraqI'm sure that is part of Unicode now...
08:42:13insomniac_lemonnarimiran, as I've said the general idea is I want to know what I need to know. Things like how the compiler works, metaprogramming, how to structure things with GC, etc.
08:42:15insomniac_lemonAll of the existing things show things and how to use them, but often don't say what they are or why I'd want to use them etc.
08:44:48PMunchOh, so not really a beginners tutorial then, which is what I and narimiran is talking about.
08:44:50insomniac_lemonI know everything available has some 'required reading' but it's a chore to sift through everything when you don't know where to start especially with the big concepts.
08:44:57PMunchAs in programming beginner
08:46:03insomniac_lemonPMunch, I've been saying beginner-to-programmer and making it clear syntax and loops/conditions etc isn't the issue
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08:49:46yglukhov_Araq: given an nkStmtListExpr, how do i get a typ for a var sym to assign to it? is it just `n.typ`?
08:50:19Araqyep
08:50:46Araqand n[^1].typ should be the same
08:50:58Araqthe expression's type is the type of the last expression
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08:51:04Araqof the list
08:51:11salewskiinsomniac_lemon, there are some fine C++ beginner books, for example from Stroustrup or Lippman, you may follow that stayle:
08:51:23salewskihttps://stackoverflow.com/questions/388242/the-definitive-c-book-guide-and-list
08:51:57salewskiBut that is of course an effort for a few years :-)
08:52:00PMunchinsomniac_lemon, so you want to have a beginner-to-programming tutorial that talks about GC, metaprogramming, and compiler internals?
08:52:43yglukhov_Araq: thanks!
08:53:05PMunchNone of those words even mean anything to a beginner-to-programming..
08:53:14insomniac_lemonPMunch, no. As I've said I want to know where to stare, especially in the general sense of things. That's why I mentioned a basic outline.
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08:53:36insomniac_lemon*I want to know where to start
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08:54:26FromGitter<narimiran> start by not worrying about the stuff you mentioned ;)
08:54:51FromGitter<narimiran> i have no idea about most of them, and i'm able to use nim quite comfortabl
08:55:30insomniac_lemonPMunch, and also I know I won't be a master of anything like that, but at very least knowing what they/very basic usage/what not to do etc
08:57:32PMunchHmm, I guess a "here be dragons" section telling you what to avoid until you learn more by reading X, Y, and Z might be a good idea
08:57:50PMunchThe classic "Just do this, but don't worry about how it works just yet"
08:58:03PMunchOh well, I'm off to lunch
08:59:09insomniac_lemonnarimiran, so just ignore everything useful or offering decent/good performance? Until nim becomes a larger language I assume...
08:59:29FromGitter<narimiran> i didn't say that
09:01:32insomniac_lemonI just don't see learning it otherwise without even having a starting point.
09:01:46salewski>ignore everything useful or offering decent/good performance?
09:02:11salewskiThat would make not much sense, because then people can leran Python
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09:03:13FromGitter<narimiran> it took me a while to figure out what's going on here, but now i think i can see it - you're just trolling us, and i'm a fool to fall for it
09:04:58insomniac_lemonnarimiran, No, I genuinely want to learn nim.
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09:06:19Araqso ask more concrete questions, don't make narimiran write a tutorial for an audience that consists of you and only you.
09:06:40FromGitter<narimiran> and you have the resources to do that, you can immediately start with learning and learn a lot along the way, but no - you need some outline, you need to know how compiler works, how to deal with GC, etc.
09:07:37FromGitter<narimiran> i'll repeat once again - you don't need that stuff to start with nim, and that's NOT "ignore everything useful or offering decent/good performance"
09:08:19FromGitter<narimiran> write some toy programs, share the code with us, and we'll help you to write better code and explain what and why to change
09:08:49FromGitter<narimiran> until you do that, i'll think that you're trolling us.
09:16:37insomniac_lemonnarimiran, I don't think that'd work, but I don't really want to need to get help for every project. I wouldn't mind doing a ton of reading if I could eventually break through into not being totally lost.
09:17:27insomniac_lemonI'm not the sort of person that could get programming by tinkering like many are. I tried it with Java (actually following a few tutorials) and that didn't work
09:22:38salewskiinsomniac_lemon, I just remembered the Tony Gaddis book: Starting Out with C++ from Control Structures to Objects
09:23:02salewskiIt has a nice introducting chapter for beginners.
09:23:43salewskiMaybe you could follow such a layout for your Nim beginner course?
09:23:56salewskiBye.
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09:33:45enthus1astalso encurage your beginners to read other peoples code
09:37:12FromGitter<krux02> 12345 commits
09:37:13FromGitter<krux02> party
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09:48:43PMunchinsomniac_lemon, what about reading dom96's book?
09:49:55Araqkrux02: I pinged you
09:50:22insomniac_lemonPMunch, aside from lack of money, it says this in the about of the book: "It assumes that you know at least one other programming language and have experience writing software in it."
09:52:31insomniac_lemonMaybe it would be helpful, maybe it wouldn't. I'm not sure if it goes over general things or just goes into specifics
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09:54:57FromGitter<krux02> Araq: I ponged you
09:56:06PMunchinsomniac_lemon, well it definitely assumes you know how programming work. But it's pretty simple to follow
09:56:20PMunchI think the first chapter (or maybe even the two first) are free
09:56:45PMunchAh chapter 1 and 8 are free
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10:01:41salewskiinsomniac_lemon, when you want to learn computer science, maybe cs50 from harward is a good free resource for you:
10:01:45salewskihttps://online-learning.harvard.edu/course/cs50-introduction-computer-science
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10:04:48salewskiBut, as recently someone wrote in an amazon comment to doms book: Only very few people will start learning programming with Nim.
10:06:22salewskiAs not many people will lern driving with a Porsche or Ferrari.
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10:08:15PMunchIt's still nice to have that resource for those that want to start with Nim
10:11:53salewskiWell, that comment was on anazon.de, from user uta:
10:11:57salewskihttps://www.amazon.de/Nim-Action-Dominik-Picheta/dp/1617293431/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1524737404&sr=8-1&keywords=nim+in+action
10:13:02salewskiFirst I did not agree, but maybe Uta is right indeed. Most beginners may tend to start with a more "popular" language.
10:14:16ArrrrWhat people may learn coming from other languages is how managed memory works
10:14:32ArrrrIf they come from python
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10:16:42PMunchYeah I wrote a primer on that for a reddit question
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10:17:03PMunchhttps://peterme.net/nim-types-originally-a-reddit-reply.html
10:17:26salewskiPMunch, yes I saw that. Nice!
10:17:30PMunchTalks about objects, ref objects, heap vs. stack, and pointer vs. ref
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11:30:08alpha1220Araq: is this anywhere on the roadmap? https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/6024#issuecomment-312213197
11:30:51insomniac_lemon@mratsim Going over Gitter I see you were replying to me... I wasn't ignoring you, but your messages don't seem to be carrying over to IRC.
11:34:56alpha1220Also, looking at github, there are many issues tagged "Language design". What is their priority? Because many of them may break code, so better to do them as soon as possible or it may be too late?
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11:41:19alpha1220Another thing, I read somewhere (don't remember where) that it is usually faster to have a main() proc than global statements. Then why not restrict executable code to definitely have a main() proc like other languages do? What advantages do globally exectuable statements provide?
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11:44:59insomniac_lemonAraq, taking a second look at the docs they are better at describing things than the other tutorials. I guess I really am looking for a sort of "required reading" sort of general overview intro to help with comprehension.
11:45:35insomniac_lemonI'll try to give it (and other resources) a fair swing, though. Noting if I have troubles
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11:51:45insomniac_lemonAbove goes to @narimiran too
11:52:25ZevvHi #nim. How would I read the outputStream() of a process in an async way?
11:52:38alpha1220Well regarding the topic of programming books and tutorials, IMO the world needs more books on how to write huge programs with proper abstractions. Most books teach just syntax. For a beginner the biggest stumbling block is -
11:52:43alpha12201) To find a project idea that is easy enough to implement but challenging enough to satisfy their ego 2) Writing code bigger than a few hundred lines, because after that they don't understand how the code is supposed to be structured.
11:54:02ZevvI'm not really concerned about portability to windows, unix-specific is fine with me
11:54:51alpha1220Going from writing code that uses all global variables and very few functions to a real program (that is not a toy) with (mostly) proper abstractions is very satisfying but challenging as none of the books/tutorials teach that.
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11:56:24alpha1220insomniac_lemon: Anything can be programmed by using the basic building blocks like functions and loops etc. You do not need to learn macros, or compiler internals or worry about the gc stuff unless you are at a very experienced stage.
11:56:55alpha1220For beginners, it is just better to try and get comfortable with writing non-toy stuff.
11:57:32alpha1220insomniac_lemon: So learn basic stuff, then try to code something.
11:57:40PMunchZevv, you could have a look at this: https://github.com/cheatfate/asynctools/blob/master/asynctools/asyncproc.nim
11:57:49FromGitter<tim-st> @Araq in vmgen.nim there is in `rawGenLiteral` `internalAssert result < 0x7fff` this breaks compilation for me what is the limitation for?
11:58:05insomniac_lemonalpha1220, structure (like the sort of thing you mentioned) is the sort of thing I was thinking of.
11:58:20insomniac_lemonWell, one of them
11:58:49insomniac_lemonalpha1220, but like I said I'll give it a shot
11:59:20alpha1220There may be very few "Write X in Nim" style tutorials but you can follow most tutorials written for other languages very easily in Nim (the basic syntax of most mainstream or aspiring to be mainstream languages) is similar enough.
12:00:50insomniac_lemonYeah I'm aware, but was just worried about small ways things may differ. Even with Python.
12:01:08alpha1220Some interesting ones are - http://craftinginterpreters.com/contents.html and https://limpet.net/mbrubeck/2014/08/08/toy-layout-engine-1.html
12:01:23dom96salewski: I really wish Amazon made it easier to reply to reviewers...
12:01:35dom96I replied to one and it's not visible unless you specifically open the review
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12:19:50ZevvPMunch: Thanks, will take a look
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12:21:06alpha1220Something is wrong with the irc bridge
12:21:15alpha1220Some messages are not being relayed from gitter to irc
12:21:34alpha1220https://irclogs.nim-lang.org/ Check the log for @mratsim recent message
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12:33:07FromGitter<arnetheduck> I guess no one in here noticed that markdown won, and rst is dead 😲 it's so hard to make nim forum posts these days...
12:38:46FromGitter<krux02> @arnetheduck I learned about rst from the nim forum.
12:39:13FromGitter<krux02> so it's not dead, it is in active use in the nim forum
12:41:00FromGitter<krux02> but I would have preferred markdown
12:41:19FromGitter<krux02> but rst is also used for nim doc commets
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13:05:46FromGitter<arnetheduck> forum uses some bastardized rst/md mix - at least that's what the help at the bottom says
13:06:50FromGitter<diegogub> hi guys, Im trying to run a process in the background using spawn but I'm getting this error: ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5ae1ceea270d7d37080b1ec8]
13:07:16FromGitter<diegogub> any idea how can I solve it? I need one variable to be global..as I'm using it as repository
13:12:56FromDiscord<claude> use threadvars
13:14:36Araqarnetheduck: the only important thing that is missing is the link syntax
13:16:00FromGitter<arnetheduck> I mostly get caught by it requiring two quote chars to get inline code formatting.. been doing lots of md lately so it's in my fingers to put only one :)
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13:20:18Araqtim-st: either a bug or you use too many different constants
13:20:24Araqnot sure. :-)
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13:32:31ZevvPMunch: I got it working by putting the outputHandle in an Asyncfile and making it nonblocking with fcntl
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13:33:53alpha1220Araq: can you please look at https://irclogs.nim-lang.org/26-04-2018.html#11:30:08, https://irclogs.nim-lang.org/26-04-2018.html#11:34:56, https://irclogs.nim-lang.org/26-04-2018.html#11:41:19
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13:35:22Araqtop level statements: conceptual clarity. no magic 'main' proc the outer world runs.
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13:35:55Araqlanguage design: depends on the concrete problem.
13:36:45Araq'import' and 'importPattern' -- consider it done.
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13:37:27PMunchZevv, code snippet?
13:37:30FromGitter<gogolxdong> Is there any OAuth2 implementation in Nim?
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13:38:06PMunchhttps://github.com/CORDEA/oauth
13:38:39alpha1220Araq: 👍
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13:49:01FromGitter<gogolxdong> Does this work?
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13:51:16FromGitter<gogolxdong> I remember we tried this.
13:53:29PMunchgogolxdong, don't know. Never tried it
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13:58:03leruHow come loadHtml is sometime GC unsafe but mostly save according to the compiler?
14:06:12Araqit should be GC safe.
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14:13:16lerui encountert it a few times. but the weird thing is, i could compile the same code a second time without the error coming up
14:15:13PMunchHmm, that definitely sounds like a bug
14:17:37leruhuh. ok. i think it's a NimLime bug
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14:20:00leruso, when there is a bug somewhere else, the cli tells me this, but NimLime pops up and tells theres another error in the loadHtml line
14:20:21Araqmaybe it's some --threads:on/off issue
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14:39:58ZevvPMunch: http://paste.debian.net/1022159/
14:43:12PMunchHmm, interesting
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15:00:30lerui can't find how the get the attribute from an XmlNode as a string. .attrs["summary"] gives me a "<XmlAttributes, string>"
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15:00:39lerucan anyone help me out?
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15:04:31PMunchProbably $
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15:04:44PMunchThe universal toString proc in Nim
15:05:49PMunchOr wait
15:07:13PMunchHmm, do you have a code snippet leru?
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15:09:13leruPMunch: it's basically this: echo loadHtml("toparse.html").findAll("table")[0].attrs["summary"]
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15:14:57FromDiscord<claude> try .attr("summary")
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15:19:00leruclaude: this worked. thanks
15:19:23lerui was looking at this btw: https://nim-lang.org/docs/htmlparser.html#example-transforming-hyperlinks
15:19:28leruis this deprecated, too?
15:22:02PMunchWait, that worked for you?
15:22:30leruthe .attr("summary") worked
15:22:32PMunchCause it didn't work for me
15:23:38lerui thought i tried it about an hour ago and it didn't work, but now it does
15:25:20FromGitter<data-man> @leru: Change href to HREF
15:26:51PMunchAh, import strtabs
15:27:12FromGitter<data-man> Hmm, it's worked for some html files only :(
15:27:14PMunchleru, this works for me: http://ix.io/18C1/
15:29:01FromDiscord<claude> is this a varargs[`$` bug?
15:30:01PMunchNot really
15:30:41PMunchattrs returns a String -> String table from strtabs
15:30:56PMunchSo you need to import strabs in order to use it
15:31:14PMunchAs that's what defines this: https://nim-lang.org/docs/strtabs.html#[],StringTableRef,string
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15:33:12FromGitter<data-man> No, I think that https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/pure/htmlparser.nim#L1980 must be ```newStringTable(modeCaseInsensitive)```
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15:35:21PMunchYeah
15:35:27PMunchAttributes are meant to be case insensitive
15:36:16FromGitter<data-man> So PRed this tiny change :)
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15:41:15FromGitter<data-man> And for https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/pure/xmlparser.nim#L73 too
15:47:00leruso. strtabs doesn't help with .attrs[] and writing in all caps neither. also the attribute is in lower case
15:50:55PMunchleru, did you see the snippet I sent?
15:51:11PMunchThat's a modified version of what you said you had, but with imports that make it work
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15:55:52leruoh, yes. i see now. i just replaced the () with [], but theres an s
15:55:58leruthank you!
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15:58:42lerucoming from java i feel quite unsafe with nim
15:59:58FromGitter<xmonader> after doing `pacman -S crystal` ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5ae1f77e6d7e07082b38ae7e]
16:00:44FromDiscord<claude> coming from java i feel like i lost weight
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16:31:56FromGitter<krux02> claude: yea I know that feeling, I used Scala in the past.
16:32:45FromGitter<krux02> Scala feels like Java but finally without the handcuffs and you can do stuff.
16:33:04FromGitter<krux02> The language is not getting in your way.
16:33:23FromGitter<krux02> and Nim is like that unleached feeling, when you are coming from c++.
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16:43:38federico3unsafe?
16:43:40CodeVanceIs it alright to use template/macros when writing something for the nim stdlib?
16:47:01FromGitter<krux02> no
16:47:11FromGitter<krux02> templates yes, marcos, not really
16:47:19FromGitter<krux02> system.nim should stay free of macros
16:47:38FromGitter<krux02> when a module does not import macros, it should stay that way.
16:47:50FromGitter<krux02> but templates are fine
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16:50:18Araqhuh? macros are subject to the code review process like everything else
16:50:29Araqthey are not banned in the stdlib
16:51:43CodeVanceIf my program simply fails when I use templates. How am I supposed to go about analysing that?
16:51:51CodeVanceIt prints a stack trace
16:52:06CodeVancebut the stack trace is for the nim file after it's been expanded
16:52:18CodeVanceAnd I don't know how to analyse that
16:53:15FromGitter<geotre> CodeVance: post some code?
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16:55:51CodeVanceNo way to expand the code?
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16:57:12FromGitter<alehander42> good question, I usually write it as a macro and echo result.repr and when I am ready, I go back to template
16:57:24FromGitter<alehander42> but there must be another way
16:59:41CodeVancehmm oh well
16:59:48FromGitter<alehander42> i've been wrong the whole time :D there is getAst
16:59:50FromGitter<alehander42> https://nim-lang.org/docs/macros.html#getAst,untyped
17:00:19FromGitter<alehander42> so you can invoke it with your template invocation and echo repr of the expanded code
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17:01:28FromGitter<alehander42> I always forget those helpers exist
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17:01:41CodeVancerepr meaning $?
17:02:03FromGitter<alehander42> well `.repr` if you want the code
17:02:12FromGitter<alehander42> or `.treerepr` if you want to see the nodes
17:02:50FromGitter<alehander42> afaik `$` should replace fully `.repr` one day, @Araq why do we still have no `$` <=> repr :?
17:03:02CodeVancelisprepr treerepr astgenrepr?
17:03:24FromGitter<alehander42> yeah lisprepr is similar to treerepr, but with lisp style format
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17:04:00FromGitter<alehander42> wow I didn't know about astGenRepr :D
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17:04:41FromGitter<alehander42> well I typically use treerepr as its output seems most clean to me
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17:05:01FromGitter<alehander42> but astGenRepr can be useful if you write a macro
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17:07:25CodeVancehttps://pastebin.com/wLpAiDEU
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17:08:30FromGitter<data-man> @alehander42: Nobody reads the documentation :)
17:08:55FromGitter<alehander42> yeah I think I often find stuff in peoples code
17:08:56FromGitter<alehander42> :D
17:09:23FromGitter<alehander42> but I should review some of the stdlibs
17:09:32FromGitter<alehander42> research*
17:09:57FromGitter<data-man> Review is preferable! :)
17:12:24FromGitter<alehander42> :D
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17:33:50darithornis it possible to cross compile from linux to windows?
17:35:06Araqyeah, with the right GCC toolchain.
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17:37:07darithorni'm probably doing it wrong. i've been trying to use mingw but nim complains about vccexe. i tried using wine but that was a mess
17:37:44Araqchange your config
17:40:40darithornas in, amd64.windows.gcc? there's not a lot of documentation for the config file nim uses
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17:42:19Araqfor example.
17:44:29FromGitter<tim-st> @Araq yes, it had too many entries in a Table, declaring it as `var` instead of `const` solved it.
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17:53:45FromGitter<xmonader> is there a takewhile function in nim?
17:54:05FromGitter<xmonader> I found couple of functional pattern ones in sequtils, but can't find a takewhile?
18:03:44yglukhov_darithorn: in nimx repo `nake windows` will build windows binary, it depends on mxe cross compiler
18:03:57yglukhov_* if you're not on windows ofc =)
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18:08:27miranxmonader: shameless self-promotion: https://github.com/narimiran/itertools
18:09:02FromGitter<xmonader> @miran thanks!
18:13:08FromGitter<xmonader> i can destructure a sequence into variables?
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18:13:25miranunpacking? unfortunately no :(
18:13:31FromGitter<xmonader> :(
18:13:40miranthere's only tuple unpacking
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18:27:01Araqjust write a macro for that
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18:37:11AraqYardanico: are you working on the deprecated things?
18:38:02FromGitter<xmonader> guys ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` ⏎ ⏎ im getting invalid var sects for DMISections? [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5ae21c8a15c9b031143c729f]
18:38:05FromGitter<xmonader> any idea?
18:42:23FromGitter<xmonader> also tried this and doesn't work ⏎ ⏎ ``` sects = initTable[string, Section]() ⏎ ``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5ae21d8f6d7e07082b398569]
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18:49:16FromGitter<xmonader> do i need to define hash on ref objects to be used in a table?
18:49:36FromGitter<xmonader> doesn't make sense to me, only keys needs to be hashable right?
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18:53:05ieatnerdsHey! If possible could someone explain the difference between a template and a proc?
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18:55:17FromDiscord<claude> templates embed AST, procs are called at runtime
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18:56:27FromDiscord<claude> so when you have `template a = b`, when you write `a` it's expanded to `b`
18:58:11ieatnerdsGotcha, thank you!
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20:10:08FromGitter<xmonader> @mratsim can you help with an example?
20:13:56shashlickis it possible to use readthedocs.org for nim generated docs?
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20:26:40shashlickfederico3 ^^^ - I see you submitted nim-httpauth but it has no actual docs
20:33:22shashlicklooks like ziotom78 pulled it off somehow: http://nimcfitsio.readthedocs.io/
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20:37:40CodeVanceplease forgive my ignorance but why does this say it's a horrible example? https://github.com/zah/grip-lang/blob/master/examples/c%2B%2Biface/irrlichtex.nim
20:38:47AraqCodeVance: .link command platform specific
20:39:00Araqmanual namespace emits.
20:39:50CodeVanceBut it's not like nim has a method to interface with C++?
20:40:24CodeVanceSo if you got rid of those factors it would be a non-horrible example?
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20:43:01CodeVanceOh I see the docs says its better to use the namespace::identifier notation
20:43:07shashlickis there a recommended place to put nimble package documentation? generating the html with nim doc is super easy but hosting?
20:43:28CodeVanceshashlick, isn't github easy enough?
20:44:18CodeVanceSomeone asked if there was some way to upload generated docs to readthedocs
20:44:39shashlicki could use github pages but it's not as straightforward for nimgen wrapped projects
20:45:08shashlickya looks like zio_tom78 figured it out years ago, wonder if his python script still works - https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/678
20:45:24shashlickbut i'm more curious about the nim way of doing htis
20:45:25shashlickthis
20:45:45CodeVanceshashlick, how do you get nimgen working on stable nim
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20:46:06shashlickI need to figure that out - what version are you on
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20:46:40CodeVance1.18.0
20:46:51CodeVanceis this version broken?
20:47:29shashlickit should work with 0.18.0
20:48:26CodeVanceyes it asks you to redownload nim from git
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20:48:50CodeVanceoh but it was c2nim that caused that
20:49:32FromGitter<xmonader> to be honest, this is frustrating, 2 hours with Table, and TableRefs for what's supposed to be simple thing
20:49:35shashlickya I could make nimgen just point to the older version of c2nim but will have to retest the wrappers I have
20:50:17CodeVanceI should just not call nimble install nimgen
20:50:24CodeVancejust download from the net
20:50:25CodeVancecopy pasta
20:50:32Araqxmonader: 'import tables' ?
20:50:47shashlickya but you *might* still run into issues
20:51:09Araqwe have plenty of table usages everywhere, (nim)grep for it
20:51:11shashlicksince when you try to nimble install nimbass for example, it will check for nimgen which *might* check for c2nim again, I'm not sure
20:51:33Araqfrom your snippet it was impossible to say what you're doing wrong.
20:51:45shashlickaraq: is there a recommended way for nimble packages to host docs?
20:52:06Araqshashlick: there was nimble.io but I don't know how ready it is
20:52:26CodeVancedoesn't nimble.directory already have hosted docs?
20:52:42FromGitter<xmonader> @Araq I'm trying to port some library i wrote in python to parse dmidecode output into nim
20:53:23Araqah, nimble.directory then
20:53:58FromGitter<xmonader> https://gist.github.com/xmonader/577afbd179a00cef664e5b192c7e07e2
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20:54:22FromGitter<xmonader> and this is my original python project https://github.com/xmonader/dmiparse/blob/master/dmiparse/__init__.py
20:55:01FromGitter<xmonader> I'm stuck with Tables, I really think the docs should get more love for such important data structure..
20:55:05shashlickI guess I need to check with federico3, it does show a 'hosted docs' section but unclear how to get stuff to show up when you click
20:55:44federico3uh?
20:56:19Araqxmonader: your code does compile for me
20:56:25Araqso what's the question?
20:56:28CodeVanceshashlick, https://nimble.directory/pkg/nimgame2 it has a hosted docs button on the side
20:57:15federico3shashlick: the main page at https://nimble.directory/ goes " Nim Package Directory generates and hosts documentation for packages.". If you think it's unclear I'll refrase it
20:57:19FromGitter<xmonader> @Araq It does compile but when ran against a sample i get illegal access ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5ae23d2f62316e050503719e]
20:57:49federico3perhaps I should add a footer to every page that explains that
20:58:10shashlickno I'm trying to understand what I need to do as a packager to make sure your directory shows the docs
20:58:11FromGitter<xmonader> my guess is the props field needs to be called with initTable, isn't that done automatically with zero values?
20:58:28FromGitter<xmonader> or i need to define custome constructor to initialize it.. that's if it even the problem
20:59:37FromGitter<xmonader> @mratsim according to the docs it's okay no? ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5ae23db9270d7d37080d79ec]
20:59:59FromGitter<xmonader> for sections i use initTablestring, Section ()
21:02:12FromGitter<xmonader> Aha, let me try thank a ton
21:03:41FromGitter<xmonader> ```this solved it``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5ae23ead5d7286b43a70582b]
21:04:48CodeVanceshashlick, nimgame2 just has a folder called docs with html inside :|
21:05:08shashlickfederico3: ok looks like you have an older version of nimble, can you please verify? there was an issue where nimble wasn't installing dependencies: https://nimble.directory/ci/badges/nimbass/nimdevel/output.html
21:06:23shashlickCodeVance: ya that's on github, but federico3 is generating the docs and showing those: https://nimble.directory/docs/nimgame2/
21:06:26federico3nimble v0.8.10 compiled at 2018-04-11 22:46:28
21:06:36CodeVanceoh ya
21:06:39shashlickalso doesn't seem like the docs are cached - it seems to generate every time
21:06:39federico3shipped with Nim 0.18.0
21:07:10federico3thanks for the hints - I'm going to add a footer with some info
21:08:34shashlickfederico3: does directory generate teh docs every time someone visits the site? or does it cache info?
21:09:13federico3it's supposed to cache but it might invalidate the cache if something is not working right
21:11:14shashlickok looks like my fix isn't delivered into nimble yet: https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/issues/280, https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/pull/464
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21:25:15shashlickso in order to get nimgen wrapper docs online, I need to get that fix into nimble, get the release into nimble.directory and then ensure the docs are generated as expected - is anything easy :| cc @mratsim
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21:26:48CodeVancebtw, is nimble and c2nim part of nim's repo or are they seperate... I want to know whare to make a commit if I actually do something
21:26:59shashlickboth are separate
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21:52:17FromGitter<xmonader> my first nim project https://github.com/xmonader/nim-dmidecode please review :)
21:53:01Araquse the 'result' variable.
21:53:47shashlicknice work - smbios guy
21:57:56dom96xmonader: nice! .md files support Nim syntax highlighting :)
21:59:47dom96It seems many people don't realise they can write ```nim
21:59:57dom96Most new packages have plain black and white Nim code in their readmes
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22:03:49dom96Surely there is a better way? https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/7694
22:04:00dom96Why is every distro adding it's own damn suffix?
22:04:35Araqwe shouldn't use even cleverer wildcards here
22:04:44Araqso this PR is fine.
22:04:46AraqIMO.
22:04:56Araqmaybe we can remove older versions though.
22:05:36FromGitter<xmonader> Thanks guys! I'd like to sum up my experience in a blogpost or somethig or maybe even a tutorial how to create a library in nim?
22:05:41FromGitter<xmonader> What do you guys think?
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22:06:45shashlickdom96: nimble test is still failing
22:07:02shashlickany chance of pulling in my PR?
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22:07:42dom96shashlick: which PR?
22:07:55shashlickhttps://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/pull/464
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22:09:06dom96is this related to 'nimble test' failing?
22:10:10dom96IIRC I decided to verify this PR properly because the last fix for this issue was wrong
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22:10:31dom96But I've got Uni exams now so maybe after those are done :)
22:11:56shashlicksure no worries, I forgot that it never made it in, nimble.directory doesn't work for nimgen wrappers so that's when I remembered
22:12:16dom96I see
22:12:56shashlicktester for #428 is failing: https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/issues/428
22:13:03dom96Unfortunately Nimble development is a little bumpy :)
22:13:14dom96as is the development of most of my projects
22:13:26FromGitter<xmonader> @dom96 thanks for the md tip!
22:14:11shashlickno worries, we all have lives
22:15:29shashlickit seems the build might be working again, based the travis history, although the test does fail on my local machine
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22:20:23shashlicknope, the test case for issue #428 still fails
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22:28:22tfff1does anyone know whether nim currently supports TLSv1.2?
22:29:15tfff1I might just be doing something wrong, but when I try to connect to Discords' API I get: " error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number"
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22:42:34CodeVanceSomeone should write an article about making package managers ...
22:42:39CodeVanceEveryone uses them
22:43:17CodeVancetfff1, I think you're using the wrong api version?
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22:52:58tfff1@CodeVance I've got the context configured as with the default protVersion
22:53:06tfff1do I need to specify one in particular?
22:53:31tfff1I get the same error with protVersion=protTLSv1
22:54:11tfff1that error above is with TLS specified
22:54:15tfff1with the default I get:
22:54:25tfff1 error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown protocol
23:02:47CodeVancefile:///C:/Users/Alterna/Documents/nim-0.18.0/doc/html/net.html
23:02:51CodeVanceis says something about ssl
23:02:59CodeVancetfff1,
23:03:45tfff1thanks
23:04:02CodeVanceoops
23:04:07tfff1I've been having a look in there, but it doesn't specifically mention which version of TLSv1 it uses
23:04:08CodeVanceThat's my internal docs XD
23:04:17tfff1:)
23:04:19CodeVancerun nim with -d:ssl
23:04:22tfff1https://nim-lang.org/docs/net.html
23:05:00tfff1I am
23:05:10tfff1maybe I've got the wrong version of OpenSSL
23:05:33CodeVancehttps://nim-lang.org/docs/httpclient.html#ssl-tls-support
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23:07:38CodeVanceit says ## OpenSSL support
23:07:38CodeVance##
23:07:38CodeVance## When OpenSSL is dynamically linked, the wrapper provides partial forward and backward
23:07:38CodeVance## compatibility for OpenSSL versions above and below 1.1.0
23:10:07tfff1my build command atm is: nim c -r -d:ssl --stacktrace:on enchat.nim
23:10:21CodeVanceI think nim uses ssl 1.1 that's the dll they have in their bin folder
23:10:29tfff1I assume it's found openssl somewhere because it compiles
23:10:39CodeVanceI think you can override the dll used for openssl
23:10:49CodeVanceIt's inside nim's bin folder
23:12:00tfff1there aren't any dlls in my bin folder
23:12:23tfff1just the nim exe (plus nimble, nimgrep, nimsuggest, vccexe)
23:12:47CodeVanceyeah I'm on windoz
23:13:06FromGitter<Varriount> @Varriount ⏎ Araq: Isn't the current getCustomPragma procedure somewhat ambiguous? ⏎ If I have `getCustomPragma(someVar.someProc)`, and the proc takes no arguments, that could either be a request to retrieve the pragma of the procedure, or the pragma of the returned value.
23:13:06tfff1same
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23:13:26tfff1hmm
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23:14:55CodeVancevarriount, I thought templates don't use the value of the proc just the proc itself
23:15:23CodeVancetfff1, libssl-1_1.dll
23:18:12tfff1I think it must be missing
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23:18:30tfff1once I try to statically link to openssl the compilation fails
23:19:57CodeVancedid u download nim from the website?
23:25:28tfff1I've been installing using choosenim
23:25:59*CodeVance shrugs
23:26:23tfff1where exactly should I put the dlls?
23:28:07CodeVanceI don't know how choosenim works
23:29:01tfff1where do I place them in a normal install?
23:29:18CodeVanceYou shouldn't have to
23:29:21CodeVancein the bin folder
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23:36:24tfff1thanks @CodeVance
23:36:34tfff1the SSL tests run perfectly now
23:36:55tfff1unfortunately I'm still getting the SSL Error
23:37:04tfff1unfortunately I'm still getting the SSL Error when trying to connect
23:40:02enthus1asttfff1: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/master/lib/wrappers/openssl.nim#L310 maybe (or something nerby)?
23:40:09enthus1astnear
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23:48:39tfff1how would I disable older SSL versions altogether?
23:48:48tfff1based on this: http://openssl.6102.n7.nabble.com/quot-SSL3-GET-RECORD-wrong-version-number-quot-td8310.html
23:49:09tfff1it looks like they might be refusing the handshake because of such an old version?
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23:50:26enthus1asti had this once where my code refuses to talk to the remote because of older version
23:53:18tfff1if it makes any difference, I'm trying to use this through the websocket.nim (https://github.com/niv/websocket.nim/) library
23:54:55enthus1asthttps://github.com/niv/websocket.nim/blob/master/websocket/client.nim#L37
23:56:14enthus1astmaybe try other values for `newContext(protTLSv1, verifyMode = CVerifyNone)`
23:56:50tfff1I've tried using the defaults
23:56:57tfff1but the same thing happens
23:58:22enthus1astalso tried protSSLv23 ?
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